Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
bob lembke
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#31

Post by bob lembke » 17 Sep 2010, 17:14

Also, the picture of supposed "Austrian troops marching through the city", i.e., Jerusalem, may have been German-trained Turkish storm troops which had the special brim-less steel helmet made for them by the Germans, there were such formations in Palestine late in the war. I have seen photos of them in Palestine, and they looked just like that. Am I right about the helmets?

The troops marching in caps certainly are Austrians. Turkish troops would never wear such a cap, and the Germans in Turkey usually avoided wearing billed headgear, which were detested by the Turks, as the headgear of deserters and cowards.

Bob

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#32

Post by Peter H » 18 Sep 2010, 01:16

Bob,close up photo below.

The breast pockets look similar to the Austrian 1908 uniform: http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/infunif.htm
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#33

Post by noca » 09 Oct 2010, 11:49

The helmets appear to be an AH Trophelm, rather than being steel helmets of the Turkish 1918 pattern.
The Turkish full brim visor pictured in other threads was designed around the German M18 liner system, as such would not have been delivered to Turkey until 1918.

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#34

Post by Tosun Saral » 28 Oct 2010, 15:14

As president of Turkish Hungarian Friendship Society in Ankara I always searched about Hungarians fighting 0n Turkish side againts British. I found the following page.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk

Those brave soldiers who suffered with their Turkish brothers were Hungarians.
Franz Joseph signed the mission’s command, he only noted with resignation: “Na ich glaub’ doch, die sehn wir nimmer!”
(I believe that we will never see them again)
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#35

Post by Peter H » 29 Oct 2010, 08:18

Thanks Tosun.

Another link to that blog: http://riowang.blogspot.com/2010/07/our ... -gaza.html

British tank encountered at Gaza!
A British tank shot up by the mountain howitzer batteries in the second battle of Gaza.
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#36

Post by Tosun Saral » 06 Nov 2010, 15:10

Fieldmarshall Ahmet İzzet paşa commander of 3rd Army at Caucasus front with his KuK officers
A Hungarian officer in Turkish service in 1915 (my private collection)
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#37

Post by Peter H » 30 Jan 2011, 04:03

Just going thru the photos at http://riowang.blogspot.com/2010/07/our ... -gaza.html again.

Good trophelm shots.Is the dentist German though?
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#38

Post by Chris Dale » 30 Jan 2011, 12:39

Peter H wrote:Good trophelm shots.Is the dentist German though?
I don't think so. There Germans in Palestine wore their cockades on the side of their helmets (if they wore them at all), I think the cockade on this man's helmet is a KuK one yellow/black/yellow worn at the front. Very interesting to see a khaki Austrian cap though in the same photo. Jung's Osprey books illustrated the khaki cap but until now I've not been sure of seeing on in photos. This photo does seem to make the khaki cap clear as it matched the uniforms and khaki helmet.

Thanks again for sharing great photos.

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Chris

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#39

Post by Peter H » 31 Jan 2011, 03:36

Thanks Chris

Nice photos though. :)

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#40

Post by Tosun Saral » 08 Nov 2011, 14:00

Colonelgeneral Fahrettin Altay writes in his Gallipoli memories "The first unit which was actually the first real support of Central powers to Gallipoli battle area come on Nov 15th. This was a 24cm motorized Austrian_Hungarian Battary. This battery was given to the order of left wing of the Anafartalar (Suvla) group. They soon made affective fire on Mestantepe. In december another KuK 15 cm battery come to Gallipoli. This was given to the order of South Group. Till the embarquement of peninsula by the British no other force was send to Gallipoli. The number of germans men, NCO and COs only reached to highest level of 500. We were thinking a great attack to the British on Nov. 5th. ....."

TS's note: men of the two artillery battery were all Hungarians.

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#41

Post by Tosun Saral » 08 Nov 2011, 15:20

Carl Mühlman also gives the sameinformation in his book: " On the middle of nov. and at the beginning of dec. the first non-Turkish reinforcement units reached to Gallipoli. They were units of Ausrian-Hungary. A 24 cm motorised mörser battery and a 15 cm obüs (howitzer) battery. The first one was given toAnafartalar (Suvla) Group, the other opposite to sedülbahir. Al the batteries coused much trouble to the enemy."

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#42

Post by Chris Dale » 08 Nov 2011, 15:40

Austro-Hungarian Tropical Helmets in Palestine

Image

This is a standard issue officers and other ranks helmet. The Austro-Hungarian tropical helmet used in Palestine was lower and had a smaller brim than the German Bortfeldt helmet. Peter Jung describes some helmets as having a Hapsburg cockade in black/gold/black on the front, although the photographs on this page show helmets with an Imperial monogram badge. I have yet to see one with a cockade on it. This one has the monogram of Kaiser Franz Josef (reigned 1848-1916), showing "FJI" for "Franz Josef Imperator" (Latin for Emperor). Some Austro-Hungarian helmets were issued with a detachable neck shade.
Photo by C Dale from the Austrian Army Museum, Vienna

Image

Another standard issue helmet for troops in Palestine. This one has the "K" badge, the monogram for Kaiser Karl (reigned 1916-18). Note the webbing chinstrap and the curiously folded pugaree.
Photo © Peter Suciu, author of Military Sun Helmets of the World

Image
This khaki helmet is not of the standard shape issued to Austro-Hungarian troops in Palestine. It does not have a cockade or monogram badge, nor does it appear to have ever had one as there is no hole for the pins to attach one. It is quite probably a privately purchased helmet for use by an officer in Palestine.
Photo by C Dale from the Austrian Army Museum, Vienna

Expert from http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk

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Chris

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#43

Post by gyuresz » 14 Jul 2012, 15:31

Chris Dale wrote:
Peter H wrote:Good trophelm shots.Is the dentist German though?
I don't think so. There Germans in Palestine wore their cockades on the side of their helmets (if they wore them at all), I think the cockade on this man's helmet is a KuK one yellow/black/yellow worn at the front. Very interesting to see a khaki Austrian cap though in the same photo. Jung's Osprey books illustrated the khaki cap but until now I've not been sure of seeing on in photos. This photo does seem to make the khaki cap clear as it matched the uniforms and khaki helmet.

Thanks again for sharing great photos.

Cheers
Chris
Dear Chris,

Thank you for your input and for your excellent site about German/Austrian colonial uniforms in general! Here is one more photograph showing a somewhat irregular Austrian helmet similar to the one of the dentist:
Kovacs_helmet.jpg
Kovacs_helmet.jpg (165.82 KiB) Viewed 1254 times
It has the same shape like the regular Austrian tropical helmet, but the cockade is placed higher, not on the helmet band. The band seems also to be different from that of the regular Austrian helmets: it is adjustable with buckles, is narrower and seemengly more finely made. The wearer is a Feldwebel from an Austro-Hungarian artillery unit, maybe he had a custom made helmet? I could not find any similar models on your excellent pages.

Cheers,
György

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#44

Post by Chris Dale » 17 Jul 2012, 10:57

Thanks for sharing that photo György, you're right the position of the cockade does make it unusual. The cockade may have just been pinned on so would probably be movable?

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Chris

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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East

#45

Post by gyuresz » 17 Jul 2012, 15:25

You might be right. Anyway, the original picture is not that good quality, so I am afraid that we can not figure out much more about it.

György

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