Friedrich Freiherr Kress von Kressenstein

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Glenn2438
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Kreß

#31

Post by Glenn2438 » 31 Oct 2007, 18:49

Bill, Peter,
It is interesting to note that Kress ends his military career as the commander of the 12th Army Corps.
You are confusing your Kreß's

General der Artillerie Friedrich Freiherr Kreß v. Kressenstein (1870-1948) retired on 30 November 1929 as the Commander of Group Command 2.

The XII Corps Kreß was General der Kavallerie Franz Freiherr Kreß v. Kressenstein (1881-1957)

Both related but from different branches of the v. Kreß family.

Regards
Glenn

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Bill Woerlee
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#32

Post by Bill Woerlee » 31 Oct 2007, 22:51

Glenn

G'day mate

Thanks for that.

Ooops to me. But that is a Kress I shall have to bear with dignity.

Cheers

Bill


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Photo of General Kress von Kressenstein in Jaffa Road

#33

Post by belita » 09 Dec 2007, 14:55

Hello,
I was wondering if you have ever seen a photo of General Kress von Kressenstein taken in front of the FAST hotel in Jaffa Road, Jerusalem in a Jeep with another military man (in a moustache - I would like to know his name). The FAST hotel is in the Background and there is a solitary Jew in the foreground.
I saw this picture for the first time about 9 years ago in Sydney, in Part IV of a "family documentary" called "Fragments Jerusalem" - directed by Ron Havilio.
Recently, I have contacted Ron and sent him a rough drawing of the photo to which he replied:

Dear Isabel,
Unbelievable, your drawing! What a memory!

I haven't seen yet again the film, but I think I can identify the photo.

The Prussian General Von Kressenstein is sitting in the car. The days are World War One, before the British conquest of Palestine.

The car is standing on Jaffa Road in Jerusalem. The hotel in the background is the FAST Hotel. ....
But what is amazing in your drawing, is the solitary Jew, an ordinary passer by standing on the side, and watching the VIP General. I think he is really there in the photo. And it is the gap between those 2 persons that makes the power of the photograph. ... It is in chapter 4.

The photo was probably taken by one of the photographers who had their studio on Jaffa Road, meters away from Hotel Fast - probably Raad or Krikorian.

Well, thank you for the drawing … first attempt!

Warm regards,

Ron





This film goes for about 5 hours and before I ask Ron to try and copy the photo from his film in Jerusalem (or gather it from the film prop file) and send it to me in Sydney, I was wondering if any of you has seen it. If you have, please email me on [email protected] or [email protected].


During last week, I have been searching the Net on pictures of General KvK and I read that most of the photos were actually taken by Turkish soldiers. I attach my drawing to give you an idea of what the photo looks like. I also attach another photo of the KvK similar to the one I'm looking for, but in the photo I mean there are only 2 men, KvK is on the right of a man in a moustache and they both wear German hats, not Turkinsh hats.

The film is not available commercially - I was lucky I watched it 9 years ago as part of the Jewish Film Festival in Sydney.

Thanks and cheers,

Isabel Ruivo

PS - Actually, my drawing is not attaching because you also have a limit on bytes....like other forums also do...
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VonKressAndPrinceVonHohenlohe.jpg
VonKressAndPrinceVonHohenlohe.jpg (84.23 KiB) Viewed 1567 times

belita
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Photo of General Kress von Kressenstein in Jaffa Road

#34

Post by belita » 09 Dec 2007, 15:01

Photo now... hopefully...
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VonKressAndPrinceVonHohenlohe.jpg
VonKressAndPrinceVonHohenlohe.jpg (84.23 KiB) Viewed 1567 times

Tosun Saral
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#35

Post by Tosun Saral » 09 Dec 2007, 20:23

Prince von Hohenlohe is the man sitting at the second row wearing a fur coat with sand-storm glasses. The officer behind him in a mustasche Major Dr. Carl Mühlmann the Chief of Staff of the 1st Expeditory Forces the 22nd AC commanded by Col. Kress.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=122402

They all wearing Turkish uniforms and hats.

The first two sitting on the first row the driver and adjutant or guard and the HH Prince are wearing Turkish hats called "Enveriye".

The picture must be shoot in winter end of 1916 and first half of 1917. We can clearly see the dried mud on the wheels and winter coats.

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#36

Post by belita » 10 Dec 2007, 12:21

Photo comment - Thank you very much Tosun for the pertinent and well observed extra information.
The Prince looks a bit like Fred Mercury! :)

But have you seen a photo similar to this one, with only General Kress and another man in it (who could be von Falkenhayn, but I guess he looked darker than him - I last saw it 9 years ago)?

Please let me know, if you do.

Thanks for your help. Cheers,

Isabel

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#37

Post by Tosun Saral » 10 Dec 2007, 20:49

Sorry Isabel I havent seen such a picture.

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#38

Post by Tosun Saral » 19 Jan 2008, 22:03

Gen.of the Army Ali Fuat Erden the former CoS of 4rh Army during WW1 writes in his book "Paristen Tih sahrasına" (From Paris to Tih desert), Ankara 1949, p.150
"We thank the establishment of the 1st Expeditory Forces to the quarrel between 2 German officers. At 15:00 2 Turkish commanders Ahmet Cemal Pasha and Cemal (Küçük) Pasha the Jr. 2 german CoS von Frankenberg and von Kress, commandr of 10th Div. von Trommer and his CoS staff Maj. Rüştü Bey ( Lt. Gen. Akın) met on the hill called Double Sand Hill to discuss the latest situation at Canal. Von Frankenberg said without taking word " It is not possible to continue the attack with a hope of success. We must break the assoult. If we break immediately the operations we may save the 4th Ottoman Army and we could retead in order. If the desicion of breaking the operations to Canal delays we will face more terrible situations." Ahmet Cemal Pasha requested von Kress hiss desicion and asked if they had a a hope of 50 or 40 percent? Von Kress replied "There is no hope of success. Because most of the boats are destroyed or sunk. But for honour and duty the Expeditory Force must continue the assoults to Canal. The Force must be destroyed for military honour. For that reason I am for continuing the assoult."
It was an emotional reply. I could understand him. He was right. The disaster of canal should only be ended with such a secrifice.
Every body look into the eyes of Cemal Pasha. He said " If there is no hope of success I dont find it right to destroy all Expeditory Force just for honour. I order you to break the expedition and retead." He ordered me to take tje necessary steps for withdeavel.
Von Trommer told me a few days later "If von Kress wants to die he can jumb into the Canal. He has no right to let all Turkish Ottoman Army to jumb into Canal."


p. 49

"Von Kress worked hard nights and days long on the preparations of the Expedition to canal with his adjutant Captain Ekrem Bey ( Lt. Gen. Baydar)
One morning while they were coming to their HQ by a car they had an accident which broke a few thooth of von Kress. he was too much devoted on the Canal that he went his office with his bleeding thooth."

Lt. Gen. Ekrem Baydar
Army Serial Number: Top (Artillary)-1321(1905)-3
Brigadier: 1934
Maj. Gen.:1935
Lt. Gen.:1942
Retired:Feb. 12 1950

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Bill Woerlee
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#39

Post by Bill Woerlee » 20 Jan 2008, 22:25

Tosun

G'day mate

I liked the extract and its contents gave a good illustration on how Kress played Djemal Pasha like a violin getting the right tune out of him. The story clearly indicates that Kress thought the whole episode a disaster which was pre-emptory and should never have occurred. However, being the military man, he followed his orders to the best of his ability. To make Djemal Pasha understand the futility of the situation, he makes an outrageous suggestion that he is going to fight until no one is left to fight because this is the honourable thing to do. Finally the penny drops with Djemal Pasha and he requests an end to the madness ... the final admission that the expedition had been madness from its inception.

We know all this because Liman von Sanders was opposed to the expedition stating that "... the undertaking was condemned to failure from the beginning." Kress did what he was ordered to do and did so in an remarkable manner. But Kress was not in the market to sacrifice men in a futile adventure. He was too good an officer to have quality and well trained soldiers in his care killed for no good purpose.

So the story is one of how Kress convinced Djemal Pasha to call off the attack and follow Kress' real recommendation.

Thanks for that Tosun. I enjoyed the extract quite a bit.

Cheers

Bill

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#40

Post by belita » 25 Jan 2008, 13:53

My $0.05 worth of feminine intuitive opinion (not based on any rational - or irrational :) - data whatsoever; God knows I'm still trying to understand why WWI started, but only the system of military alliances is too esoteric for my level) is that Kress was actually a case of "Waterloo" - the ABBA song "I feel like I win when I loose". Intrinsically, he actually wanted Palestine out of Ottoman rule. It is actually easier to combat from inside pretending you are on that side. Just a thought...Ta! Isabel

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#41

Post by Tosun Saral » 25 Jan 2008, 14:19

You are right Isabel, Every German, every British, every French, every Russian wanted Palestine out of Ottoman Rule.
Since the Turk gone to home there is no rule, no democracy, no freedom, no peace at that part of the world.
Poor Palestine!, Poor Iraq!, Poor Hicaz!, Poor Egypt!, poor Libya!, poor Balkans!
They are still bleeding.

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#42

Post by Nikolay » 25 Jan 2008, 22:59

Tosun Saral wrote:Since the Turk gone to home there is no rule, no democracy, no freedom, no peace at that part of the world.
poor Balkans!
They are still bleeding.
Poor Eastern Anatolia is also bleeding right now. Bleeding does not have to do with coming or going of a particular ruling empire or nation or a race. Parts of the western Balkans indeed are bleeding but I do not think you can generalize about the whole of the peninsula. Right now half of it is a part of the EU. Plus I need to add that "Turk" has not "gone" from the Balkans - in my country 10 % of the population are ethnic Turks...
Please try to refrain from this kind of Nationalistic nonsenses - you are not attending a political meeting right now :)

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#43

Post by belita » 26 Jan 2008, 10:06

I'm sorry, I didn't want to start petty discussions of who rules over what and why at certain times in the world, for that you better read the "The Secret of the Spear" by Alec MacLellan. I was just trying to show how things can get so complex as we ignore the hidden agendas of each individual on a conscious level. Just look at this cartoon illustrating the mess of alliances at the time...Imagine how they are now!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worl ... liance.jpg

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#44

Post by Tosun Saral » 26 Jan 2008, 13:33

Nikolay wrote:
Tosun Saral wrote:Since the Turk gone to home there is no rule, no democracy, no freedom, no peace at that part of the world.
poor Balkans!
They are still bleeding.
Poor Eastern Anatolia is also bleeding right now. Bleeding does not have to do with coming or going of a particular ruling empire or nation or a race. Parts of the western Balkans indeed are bleeding but I do not think you can generalize about the whole of the peninsula. Right now half of it is a part of the EU. Plus I need to add that "Turk" has not "gone" from the Balkans - in my country 10 % of the population are ethnic Turks...
Please try to refrain from this kind of Nationalistic nonsenses - you are not attending a political meeting right now :)

Nikolay Mind your own business.
I never forgot how Turks of Bulgaria suffered under a despotic pro Russian communist Bulgarian regime. I never forgot how Bulgarians tortured the Turks at Belene island.
I never forgot how Bulgarians changed Turkish names into Bulgarian names

Before writing nonsence such as " Poor Eastern Anatolia is also bleeding right now" Think at first how cruel you were in the last 50 years.

A Last note: You are saying that the Eastern Anatolia is "bleeding". In case the emperialists continue to itch the wound, it continuously bleeds and could not find the chance to be cured. In last fifty years Bulgarian's situation was the same as Eastern Anatolia. However, they are qualifed as "civilized" due to the EU membership. Do you think that EU accepted your country thanks to your "civilization"? :lol: EU membership is the new new name of exploitation. After the Turks left Bulgaria, first Russians, then the Franco-German alliance, how nice to be colonialized 8-)

A further note: :D Now, we are exploited by the Americans, not the EU :P
Last edited by Tosun Saral on 26 Jan 2008, 14:50, edited 1 time in total.

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#45

Post by belita » 26 Jan 2008, 14:16

"In the course of his career, man has succeeded in extending his personality far beyond the limits of his body, if by "personality" we understand his whole spear of influence. Individuals vary enormously in the extent of this wider "personality", much more widely then they do in their physical organization. But every community has its "personality" also...A nation is an individual of a still higher order, controlling not only the mental and physical life of a vast number of human beings, but a corresponding large portion of land. Nations, like crowds, have their psychology. They are born, and live, and die. They have passions and greeds and diseases, and sometime generous impulses". From "Two New Worlds" by E. E. Fournier d'Albe, author of "The Electron Theory" (pp. 127,141).

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