Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
turcoscot
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#31

Post by turcoscot » 09 Jun 2008, 22:02

Dear Viviane,
Thanks very much - I'll pass this on to my colleague and see what I can find. Any idea what your grandfather did in those years he was in Istanbul? He must have been quite senior in rank by then if he returned to the military, which might make it easier to trace him.

Uskudar brings back memories - when I worked in Istanbul I used to catch the company bus from there every morning.

Reha

celeborn1
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#32

Post by celeborn1 » 13 Jun 2008, 01:34

Hello Reha

I am not sure if my grandfather had left the army when he was back in Istanbul, but it is possible. I get the impression that he had a private practice in Cairo after he was formally released from captivity, but I think it was not for long, as they returned to Istanbul and I think he was working as a doctor there and also involved with Kemal Ataturk's movement - which was why he returned to Istanbul, he wanted to help.

I believe his death occurred when my mother was about 4 years old - so he died either in 1919, 1922, or somewhere in between. I think he was buried in the military cemetery in Istanbul.

regards
Viviane


turcoscot
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#33

Post by turcoscot » 15 Jun 2008, 06:18

Interesting - I have been thinking over the last week, and there was a military medical school in Istanbul which might bring some leads. Note that if he died between 1919 and 1922, Istanbul was under Allied occupation, and since he was returning from Cairo it would have to have been with the knowledge of the Allied authorities. If he was a major in 1915 at the time of your mother's birth, he would have been quite senior when he returned to Istanbul; a colonel commanded a division at that time, and several divisions were commanded by lieutenant-colonels. Hence the Allies, not to mention the Ottoman government at the time, would have been likely to keep tabs on him. I wonder if there would be a mention in the British records - a check with the Imperial War Museum might be worthwhile. I had a very pleasant exchange a number of years ago with a gentleman named Philip Dutton who worked there, one of whose relations had been in British Intelligence in istanbul during the allied occupation; you ought to be able to find his email from the IWM site.
It is very likely my grandfather knew yours; my grandfather was deputy commander of the Istanbul garrison during this time, and served on a war ministry committee for officers affairs; he went underground and joined the Kemalists in 1921.

celeborn1
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#34

Post by celeborn1 » 15 Jun 2008, 10:35

Hi Reha
You mention that your grandfather went underground in 1921to join the Kemalists. Could you give me a little more background on the situation in Istanbul at the time - was being a Kemalist forbidden at the time? Apparently my grandfather went back to Istanbul specifically to join Kemal Ataturk's cause. In fact from the information my mother gave me, that is probably why he died - apparently he was shot and killed because of his politics. So I am thinking its quite possible that your grandfather knew mine.......

As to rank, he was in the medical corps (he was a doctor) - so I don't know how rapidly he rose in rank, so waht his final rank was at his death I don't know.

I think the trail goes warmer... I will try to find Philip Dutton at the IWM, manmy thanks for that

Regards, Viviane

turcoscot
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#35

Post by turcoscot » 28 Jun 2008, 02:46

Dear Viviane,
I was on the net today looking for some stuff about my grandfather, and came across the following book you might find interesting:

Istanbul Under Allied Occupation, 1918-1923 (Ottoman Empire and Its Heritage) (Library Binding)by Bilge Criss (Author), Nur Bilge Criss (Author)

You can get it on Amazon, but it's expensive; you might try your local library or interlibrary loan service.

best,

Reha

celeborn1
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#36

Post by celeborn1 » 29 Jun 2008, 08:55

Hi Reha
I have already ordered it and was about to write a post to let you know :) . Also the Cambridge history Vol 4 of Turkey, so I have been spending up a bit - they will arrive in early October. Have begun to learn a little Turkish, I'm planning to relocate to UK sometime in the next couple of years or so, and hope to visit Turkey from there. Also, if I am going to learn Ottoman Turkish, I guess Turkish is also a good idea....

I'm looking forward to the arrival of Bilge Criss' book especially, and am still waiting to hear from the International Red Cross, they might take a while.

Regards
Viviane

slam
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#37

Post by slam » 02 Jul 2008, 02:47

A beautiful story.
I am from Abha city, the capital of Asir region, Saudi Arabia. I am pleased to offer you an overview of the Ottoman military hospital in Abha.
It was established a large military hospital in downtown Abha, cabital of Asir. I does not know the date of its establishment, but it was present in 1332 e / 1904. In 1329 e / 1911, It was staffed by twenty physicians. The hospital was managed by an Ottoman officer named captain Mahmud Effendi, who married a woman from Asir region.
The pharmacy was staffed by high military rank pharmacists. Pharmacist Rushdie Effendi, who hold the rank of captain, and was arrested by Al-Idrisi army during the siege of Abha in 1328 e., was the maneger of the pharmacy. The availability of pharmaceutical medicine was manejed by bringing plants, Illanes, black bean,....ect, all of which processed for patients
In addition to this hospital, there was a movable hospital. Ottoman ruler in Asir, Suleiman Kamal Pasha, wrote in his memoirs that he took with him the movabel hospital when he went to Sabia city during negotiations with Al-Idrisi. The Ottoman Roler was accompanied by a doctor and pharmacist, a pharmacy and surgeon to treat patients and win over the hearts of locals.
The hospital has several departments and doctors. The people knew doctors based on their specialities. In the era of the last Ottoman roler In Asir, Mohi Aldin Basha, the most important doctors was the inner physician Khulusi, as well as doctor Mohammed internists.
In 1329 e/1911, freckle-mouth disease outbreak, causing the death of 2% of the Ottoman soldiers, 12 doctors of the total of twenty doctors.

Tosun Saral
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#38

Post by Tosun Saral » 02 Jul 2008, 21:10

Hello Slam well come to the forum. Thank you for nice information. With your permission I would like to add a word to your text. You say "movable hospital" we say it in Turkish "Seyyar Hastahane"
"Seyyar" is an Turkified Arabic word for mobile. Hastahane is hospital.
There are many Arabic words in Turkish that are used for the fist time ever in the history of Arabic language.
"Tayyar" pilot
Tayyare: airplane
tahtelbahir: submarine
Cumhuriyet: Republic
Meşrutiyet:Constitutional ect
:D :D

slam
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#39

Post by slam » 02 Jul 2008, 22:07

Tosun Saral wrote:Hello Slam well come to the forum. Thank you for nice information. With your permission I would like to add a word to your text. You say "movable hospital" we say it in Turkish "Seyyar Hastahane"
"Seyyar" is an Turkified Arabic word for mobile. Hastahane is hospital.
There are many Arabic words in Turkish that are used for the fist time ever in the history of Arabic language.
"Tayyar" pilot
Tayyare: airplane
tahtelbahir: submarine
Cumhuriyet: Republic
Meşrutiyet:Constitutional ect
:D :D
Thank you for your comment.
Yes, there are many words in the Turkish language origin back to the Arabic language. This is understandable in light of that the majority of the Turkish nation are moslim, and read the Koran, and thus are affected by his Arabic words. In contrast, the presence of the Ottoman for long time in many Arab countries led to the entry of many Turkish words in the Arabic language.
But I think that the number of the Arabic words used in the Turkish language are more than the Turkish words used in the Arabic language.

celeborn1
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#40

Post by celeborn1 » 03 Jul 2008, 01:52

Hello Slam and Tosun,
Slam, thank you for the information about Abha, its great to hear from someone from the city, and the information is like the opening of one more window on my grandfather's history. I've found one or two websites about Abha, and gather that there's now a large hospital there, so I have wondered whether it was begun a long time ago or was only developed in recent years. Now you have given me the answer, the hospital has a long history in Abha.

In the translation I was given here in Australia of the document, it mentions the El-Ğurre quarter, and that my grandfather was resident there, and that the witnesses to the document were Captain (?) Ahmed Hamdi, and the Secretary of the Regiment Muhammed bin Ali (?), both from that quarter, and Şeyh Mübarek - Muhammed Mübarek, headman of the quarter. Are you familiar with a quarter of that name in Abha? Perhaps it is no longer called that.

Tosun, your information is of great value to me, I have decided to learn Turkish as well as Ottoman Turkish (it seems to make sense...). Seyyar Hastahane in English would as you say be mobile hospital, or mobile field hospital in military terms. I've found a good website on Turkish grammar, and am awaiting delivery of a Turkish dictionary also.

Turcoscot (Reha) has also suggested to me that my grandfather's death in Istanbul may have been reported in the newspapers at the time, so some time in the future I will try to follow that lead up. I am assuming that they were written in Ottoman Turkish, do you have any knowledge of whether that was the case, Tosun?

Regards to all
Viviane

slam
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#41

Post by slam » 03 Jul 2008, 03:55

celeborn1 wrote:Hello Slam and Tosun,
Slam, thank you for the information about Abha, its great to hear from someone from the city, and the information is like the opening of one more window on my grandfather's history. I've found one or two websites about Abha, and gather that there's now a large hospital there, so I have wondered whether it was begun a long time ago or was only developed in recent years. Now you have given me the answer, the hospital has a long history in Abha.

In the translation I was given here in Australia of the document, it mentions the El-Ğurre quarter, and that my grandfather was resident there, and that the witnesses to the document were Captain (?) Ahmed Hamdi, and the Secretary of the Regiment Muhammed bin Ali (?), both from that quarter, and Şeyh Mübarek - Muhammed Mübarek, headman of the quarter. Are you familiar with a quarter of that name in Abha? Perhaps it is no longer called that.


Regards to all
Viviane

Welcome to you, Vivian

I think that the Ottoman hospital no longer existed after the withdrawal of the Ottomans from Aissr in 1337 AH, after their defeat in the First World War. Asir current Central Hospital, established in the Saudi era.
Regarding El-Ğurre (Al-Gara) quarter, it is known. It was one of the main quarters in Abha during the Ottoman period. The old homes In that quarter have been removed before nearly 30 years, and the government had created a new complex for the government departments Instead of it. It has been named one of the new eighborhoods of Abha city after the old neighborhood, El-Ğurre or the new (Gara).
The image of the traditional Asiri quarter , which placed above, is the image of the old (Gara) quarter.
Persons whose names were mentioned in the Ottomans document were Ottmanis, except headman of the quarter who was from the locals.

http://www.asir1.com/as/showthread.php?t=12908

This link gives you an idea of Asir region and the city of Abha, nature, construction, traditional markets, people, ... etc
In the Ottoman period, the city of Abha called "small Istanbul". There are also many different images covering the Asir region and its capital, Abha, could be seen on the same Web site, Asir.

http://www.asir1.com/as/index.php

turcoscot
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#42

Post by turcoscot » 03 Jul 2008, 05:53

Dear All,
Just so you know I haven't forgotten, my colleague from Egypt is on vacation (in Turkey, actually!!) so I'll ask him about the school in Cairo when he returns next month.

My conjecture about the newspapers is based on the logic that if he was a medial major, he was quite a senior officer, and if he were killed it would undoubtedly attract attention.

Just as an illustration of what was going on around then, there were demonstrations in Konya protesting the Greek landing in Izmir in 1919; the British occupation forces decided that these were fomented by six officers, including Col. Fahrettin Altay, the famous cavalry commander, my grandfather Lieut. Col. Munip Uzsoy, and four others - two of whom were medical corps officers. The British demanded these officers be removed from Konya, upon which my grandfather was transferred to Istanbul as deputy commander of the Istanbul garrison (Istanbul Muhafiz Yardimcisi).

Reha

turcoscot
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#43

Post by turcoscot » 13 Jul 2008, 23:19

Hello Viviane,
My colleague is back, and I've passed on the questions regarding the school; I'll let you know what comes back.

Thanks,

Reha

slam
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#44

Post by slam » 06 Feb 2009, 05:37

Are there any new information about this topic?

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Peter H
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Re: Turkish Army medical staff Asir, Yemen 1918

#45

Post by Peter H » 08 Feb 2009, 10:10

Photos of Red Crescent staff.

From Regulus : http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/v ... hp?t=17646

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