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Some different Gallipoli pics

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 27 Jun 2008 12:40

"Victorious Ottomans"
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 27 Jun 2008 12:47

Left to Right "..Anzac Generals..".. Johnson,NZ Artillery,Russell,NZ Mounted Rifles,Monash,Aust 4th Brigade,Johnston NZ Light Infantry,Stephenson,Antill,3 LAH Bde.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 27 Jun 2008 12:51

"..on the heights above the Suvla plain,after the evacuation..."
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Borys on 27 Jun 2008 18:53

Ahoj!
Wonderful!
Borys

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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 07:59

Australian camp at Mena,Egypt before the campaign.

No kangaroos landed at Gallipoli. :D

Mascots ended up in the Cairo zoo.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 08:08

Lemnos before the 25th April--"British midshipman..eighteen year old Wilfred St Aubyn Malleson(centre) was to become the youngest serviceman awarded the Victoria Cross for his action at the V Beach landing..."

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilfred_St._Aubyn_Malleson
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Bill Woerlee on 28 Jun 2008 10:38

Peter

G'day mate

Love the pix - they are great.

No kangaroos landed at Gallipoli.


Not quite true. I have posted a pic of Monash and his headquarters staff calling their pet kangaroo for tucker time at Gallipoli.

WW1_7_1qaa1.jpg


We have to be a bit careful when making such bold statements. :lol:

Cheers

Bill
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 12:09

Thanks Bill!

Turkish gun and crew
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 12:17

A young Bernard Freyberg, a champion swimmer, before the war.Awarded the DSO at Bulair,later the VC in France.

http://horowhenua.kete.net.nz/site/docu ... ardanelles

One of the most extraordinary and daring feats in the war has been accomplished by a young New Zealander, who however, is not serving with the New Zealand forces. Many people in the Dominion will remember “Tiny” Freyberg, who, as a schoolboy was a champion swimmer. He is now full blown major, has been wounded three times and has been twice mentioned in dispatches. He was evidently born to be a soldier. Some time ago he went out to Mexico and offered his services to Huerta. Huerta did not want him, so he went and fought with Villa on the opposite side. Returning to England he joined the Naval Brigade; fought at Antwerp; was wounded; received his captaincy, and was mentioned in dispatches. Afterwards, he came out with the Brigade to the Dardanelles. When an attack was about to be delivered further down the Peninsula, it became necessary to make a demonstration opposite the Bulair lines, so that reinforcements would not be sent from that quarter.

It was decided to despatch three boatloads of men ashore to light flares on the beach, so as to draw the fire of the enemy in the Bulair lines and engage their attention while the marines landed at Cape Helles. Freyberg was to command the landing party. He, however, pointed out to Major-General Paris that this meant sacrificing the lives of the men, not one of whom would be likely to return alive, and he suggested that he himself should be allowed to perform the mission by swimming ashore.

It was therefore arranged that on the 4th April he was to go in the destroyer Kennet and make a reconnaissance. This was done, the destroyer being fired at by the Turkish held batteries and maxima. On the following evening three cutters and two picket boats were loaded with men as if for a night landing, and Freyberg, having had his skin painted Khaki, got into the Kennet, which was to drop him in the sea about half a mile from the shore. By this time night had fallen, but there was faint moonlight. In the uncertain light it was not easy to judge distance, and young Freyberg found that he was in for a swim of two miles, with three old flares and two Holmes lights, which he carried in a waterproof bag, with sufficient air in it to support the weight in the water.

He also carried, attached to a belt round his waist, a small revolver, and a sheath knife. He was put into the water sometime after midnight, and he judged that it took him an hour and a half to swim ashore. He had to dodge the ordinary landing place, where there were barbed-wire entanglements, and landed on a rugged bit of beach. From there he crawled inland for a quarter of a mile to a place where on the previous day he had noticed some trenches, and he could hear the Turks and see them striking matches to light their cigarettes in the lines higher up. The water had been bitterly cold, and he now felt symptoms of cramp, so he crawled back to the beach, landed again, and lit a second flare. He repeated the performance a third time, still further along the shore, the Kennet meantime having opened fire over the other lights with her 12 pounders and maxima.

Having safely accomplished this mission, Major Freyberg started to swim back on a line due south, as arranged, steering by a compass on his wrist, to a spot where it had been arranged the Kennet would pick him up. The Kennet, however, was not there, and so he had to float about for nearly an hour. The day before they had seen a shark following the boat, several of these brutes having no doubt been attracted by the dead bodies from the transport Manitou, which met her fate in these waters – and when a great porpoise rose before him about halfway across, he admits that he got an awful fright.

After floating for about an hour, and all firing having by that time ceased, he started to swim in the direction in which he thought the Kennet might be, and presently, in answer to his “cooees,” the destroyer came along and picked him up. This uncertain floating around in the dark, the moon having gone down – was the worst part of the whole adventure. Subsequently Major Freyberg was sent for by the General who thanked him and told him he would hear more about his very plucky action.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 12:27

Delousing.

" Lt Colonel Carew Reynell of the 9th Australian Light Horse delouses his clothing...He was killed the day after this photo was taken on Hill 60.."
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 12:33

"Roll call..just these forty-two men of the 1st Australian Light Horse Bridge..escaped death in their charge at Pope's Hill.."

I think the author means death and wounds.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Peter H on 28 Jun 2008 12:43

The Murdoch connection..Keith Murdoch,father of Rupert Murdoch,at Gallipoli.

http://www.awm.gov.au/people/272.asp

He travelled to the Dardanelles after the August fighting had petered out and, after just four days on the peninsula, sought to take a letter from the British journalist, Ellis Ashmead Bartlett, to the British Prime Minister without passing the censor. The letter, outlining the nature of the Gallipoli fiasco, was intercepted in Marseilles, but Murdoch wrote an 8,000 word piece of his own which, though it contained many errors, was seen by the Australian Prime Minister and senior British politicians. The letter is credited with contributing to the decision to recall the campaign's commander and for the eventual evacuation, but it earned Murdoch the contempt of many high-ranking officers.
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby glaswegian on 28 Jun 2008 15:32

Grat Photos,pit,Thanks for sharin thaim with us

william

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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Borys on 28 Jun 2008 21:03

Ahoj!
More pics of the vitcors, please!
Borys
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Re: Some different Gallipoli pics

Postby Bill Woerlee on 29 Jun 2008 00:12

Peter

Thanks again for more pix.

I was rather taken by the caption:

"Roll call..just these forty-two men of the 1st Australian Light Horse Bridge..escaped death in their charge at Pope's Hill.."


Since a Brigade contains about 1,600 men and if 42 survived, then by implication, there was a massacre of some 1,500 men at Pope's, which of course never happened. This is the remnants of one under-strength regiment of the 1st LHB, which is a tad bit more accurate. Unlike the attack on the Nek where failure was compounded, Chauvel saw that the attack failed and called off the other waves from charging. So while this may be a picture of haunting pathos for that Squadron, the caption needs a little bit of modification.

It's that thing again about lack of care.

Here is the pic on the AWM site:

http://cas.awm.gov.au/photograph/H00356

This is the pix caption: "All that was left of the 1st Australian Light Horse. Only 42 members of the regiment returned after the charge at Anzac."

So now we have a confusion between Brigade and Regiment.

In addition, if we examine the 1st LHR War Diary, we see this entry:

1stLHR_WD_07081915_1qaa1.jpg


So if we do the tally, we get these figures:

15 killed
34 missing - most will be KIA
98 wounded
42 at roll call
189 men in toto for the Regiment on 7 August 1915.

While the loss of men at any time is tragic, the pic gives a false sense of tragedy by overstating the result of an event through either careless or deliberate scholarship.

Careless in that the author did not really put in the effort to examine the material to be published which then puts the commentary about the other pix into doubt as we do not know which captions are actually accurate or the level of accuracy. This also plays to the nature of the text as well. Careless scholarship does not have a sign on it, but it taints the body of the text.

Deliberate would indicate that the text is highly political with the intent to blame others for the casualties incurred by Australian forces. At first it was blame the Brits, now it is blame the Americans. The political idea is that it is everyone else's fault. The alternative corollary of this message is that Australians are incapable of bungling themselves. We are perfection personified. I might not argue against that assessment in a personal sense but it is an obvious canard. A former PM, Keating tried to peddle this line as did the movie Gallipoli.

So with that in mind, I think we should harbour grave doubts about the text in this book and actually examine the authenticity of the captions.

For example, the pic of all the Brigadiers gathered was taken on the day Kitchener arrived. This was a deputation of Anzac Brigadiers sent to greet Kitchener and show him around the trenches. So the significance of the pic is lost through omitting this part of the commentary. The picture presents itself as a group of generals aimlessly standing around looking at a camera as you would do on Gallipoli every day illustrating why the invasion was a failure. Damn those generals and their aimless picnics while the men are in the trenches holding off the Turks.

Again, the pic of Reynell chatting relies upon poignancy rather than reality. We have a general idea when the pic was taken but legend gives the date as in described in the caption. The essence of the pic is missed as well. Reynell is chatting, a term used to describe the process of delousing clothes in a manual manner, something that was necessary on a regular basis. The picture demonstrates that Reynell led his men from their level rather than as some remote figure. Had they wanted an actual pic of Reynell to illustrate the man, there were better studio shots of him available.

And so it goes on.

It has inspired me to write a burst on the blog dealing with the fundamentals of this type of commentary.

Fleas on fleas - The results from careless work - another case study

http://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Ho ... ase-study/

Heck, I must be feeling cranky today ... :lol:

Cheers

Bill
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