jwsleser wrote:Chris Flaherty
I am looking forward to your book. However I am a bit confused on some of the details on Plate 20.
The Onbasi is of the 27th Infantry. Your drawing has the uniform with a grey collar instead of the dark green shown in several Turkish sources. Grey is the color identified for cavalry. I will comment that Türk Askerî Kiyafetleri states that infantry worn ordinary collars in tunic color (page 40). I am not sure whether that was the plan or a wartime modification. Officers certainly wore colored collars. The photographic history tends to support enlisted with plain collars and officers with colored. The grey stripe of color down the front of the tunic is also new to me.
I assume the rifles bascavus is also 1915. The rifle units (Nişanci taburlari) were disbanded in 1913 after the Balkan Wars, so I am uncertain want type of unit this figure represents?
The use of rank stripes on the cuffs. I asked this question on the Askeri Tarih Grubu FB group. The consensus was that the use of cuff rank insignia was Jandarma, while the Ordusu used shoulder strap insignia.
Just some questions based on my limited knowledge. Are their other sources I should look at?
Jeff, thanks so much for these questions.
The use of 'Green', originally (since the Crimean war), was the branch color for Dragoons and the rifle BNs . However, between 1909, and 1914 this color is re-designated for the Machine Guns units. The infantry on the other hand, are designated as 'Olive Green' (British Turk Army Manual 1916); however most of the early color illustrations show this as somewhere between Brown/Dark Grey. Where as Cavalry are clearly always 'Silver Grey'.
The next change is 1916, where the Infantry now:
piyade= infantry, dark green
Makinali tufek= MG, light green
suvari= cavalry, silvery
In doing this book, I am keeping to the view that it is better to keep -in all the contradictory info, rather than loose it (just in case there is more to be discovered down the track).
The debate about the use of NCO cuff lace, very much falls into this category (and cannot confirm either way). The British Turk Army Manual (1916), and other iterations clearly identified this was for the entire army (and that would include the Jandarma - as this stage they are another branch of the Army / not a separate institution as they are now in modern Turkey). What has been found, is 'Dress gendarmerie regulations, 9 may 1909.' which describe the same system in use. The same regulations for the use of the same system for the rest of the army (in 1915/16), have not as yet been found. So you are left with, ignore a primary resource - The British Turk Army Manual (1916), or still wait to find the corresponding Turkish Army instructions. The final question is, are all the period photographs from WW1 with cuff lace, supposed to be Jandarma mixed in with army units? I think the consensus is wrong.
The 27th Regt uniform has been illustrated with contrasting collar, cuffs and fly due to a problem with the original jacket it is based-on, which is a Gallipoli relic (and I have been working with the owner helping to analysis this - this will be published eventually), which is that we/I cannot tell what color it was originally. It was made as a stop-gap Ersatz tunic, and is very crudely made, and was taken on 25 April 1915. It varies in color between light-grey, to possibly brown. So the illustrations is trying to show both possibilities.
Any more questions/info please come forward!