Turkish Heavy Artillery at Anzac

Discussions on the final era of the Ottoman Empire, from the Young Turk Revolution of 1908 until the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923.
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stevebecker
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Joined: 01 Jul 2006, 04:04
Location: Australia

Turkish Heavy Artillery at Anzac

#1

Post by stevebecker » 29 Jul 2014, 02:20

Mates,

For some time I have been trying to find what Heavy batteries fired into the Anzac Positions but have ran into some problems in identifiying who they maybe?

Heavy types of guns in the Turkish Army were kept at Corps or Army level these being 105mm, 150mm and 210mm types from the Germans.

No heavy guns were at Division level these being only 77mm and 75mm type German guns.

There is no mention of any heavy guns in accounts during the landing, when reports put at lest one Heavy BN should have been with the Esat Pasha's 3rd Corps which should have looked like this;

3rd (105 mm) Obüs/How Bn -2x batteries each with 4 obüs guns)

While at lest one Bty of heavy 150mm guns should have been with the 5th Army level , but when it moved to either Anzac or Helles is unknown?

5th Obüs/How Bty (2x 15cm Krupp K16 field guns)

The problem now comes as large numbers of Turkish Divs arrived at the Front during the weeks and months after the landing, did there Corps guns arrive also.

Ed Erickson book "The Ottoman Campaign" mentions some of these guns, the first appear in May 1915 (around 11 May) at Anzac and he mentions (on page 102) a 210mm battery and 120mm battery.

Can anyone give me any idea on who these batteries are?

Cheers

S.B

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 01 Jul 2006, 04:04
Location: Australia

Re: Turkish Heavy Artillery at Anzac

#2

Post by stevebecker » 31 Jul 2014, 03:31

Mates,

A friend sent me this from a Turkish mate;

Hi Steve,

The following is from Mesut Uyar (I passed your post onto him) . Maybe not all that you are seeking, but it may help.

Cheers

Chris

Reference to your question the heavy artillery batteries moved to the landing sites at least two days after the landings. You know there were only mountain artillery (batteries of 27th and 57th Regiments) and a single 87 mm old Krupp field gun (Kabatepe) at Anzac on 25 April. There was a battery of 150mm short old Krupp guns at Palamutluk that occasionally fired towards the coast and landing vessels. That was basically the situation on 25 April. Your friend is right about III Corps 105mm Krupp howitzer battery. But as far as I recalled it was somewhere around Bolayır at the time of landing and remained there for another two days.

This places the two heavy Artillery units with the 3rd Corps and at 5th Army HQ, but still not where the 210 and 120mm batteries came from.

The only other answer could be from the moblie batteries of either the 3rd, 4th or 5th Heavy Artillery Regts guarding the straits around Canakkale to Kum Kale?

Cheers

S>B


stevebecker
Member
Posts: 1468
Joined: 01 Jul 2006, 04:04
Location: Australia

Re: Turkish Heavy Artillery at Anzac

#3

Post by stevebecker » 01 Sep 2014, 03:41

Mates,

Inquires came up with some possible answers?

I found an interesting reference in Ed's book which mentions the arrival in Feb- March of the moblie 8th Heavy Artillery Regt which suported the 3rd, 4th and 5th Heavy Regts along the straits during the Naval battle in March 1915.

What I found interesting is the use of the word "Moblie" for this Heavy or Fortress Artillery Regt. (since before that date reports placed this Arty Regt (with 3xBns) in Adrianople Fortress with the 6th, 7th, 9th and 10th Fortress Artillery Regts total 57 guns).

He doesn't say what batteries it had (8th Heavy Arty Regt) but his annex table gives us these guns;

31 - 150mm/10.8 how

10 - 210/6.4 mortar

12 - 120/30 How

6 - 120/11.6 How

But his lists give two numbers for total guns from 42 as of Feb 26 1915 to March 18 with the above list of 59 guns, under command of LtCol Wehrle, a German officer.

So the arrival of the 120mm and 210 batteries at Anzac in May could refer to some of these guns released for the Turkish attack in May 1915?

Accounts place these guns around Anzac in July 1915;?

That sumary is about what I came up with.



Since Turkish gun postions (like ours) should have a primary firing postion along with a secondry or more firing positions, there movement after firing could be any where within these squares, or further?



Reports all give that the Turkish guns moved around a lot, and knocking them out cause some concern in the Allied Arty command. particularly when surpressing them for the Allied attacks.



Its clear that these Turkish Heavy batteries could and did form single gun groups in which to drop the odd shell then move, which finding there location at times very hard.



So where was the Corps guns for the 3rd Corps after the landing?



3rd (105 mm) Obüs/How Bn -2x batteries each with 4 obüs guns



Its clear that this Artillery Bn was broken up and the guns disperced over the battle front from the north around Baby 700 to the Olive Grove, like wise the 5th Army Battery;



5th Obüs/How Bty (2x 15cm Krupp K16 field guns)



was also broken up with a gun possibly at Kaba Tepe and the other at Anafarta or possibly both at Anafarta and another gun for another battery at Kaba Tepe.



With the arrival of Turkish reinforcements in May 1915 the units on the Anzac front were grouped at the Northern Groups and contained new Div's as the 2nd Div, 5th Div and 16th Div along with the 9th Div and 19th Div.



These formations came from a number of Corps, but no mention is made of any Corps batteries/Bn's arriving with them, only one 120mm batrery and a 210mm battery possibly from the moblie 8th Heavy or Coastal Artillery Regt from the Narows defence.



Where did these guns go?



May to July 1915 these are recorded by Jeff's and the Artillery map;



238 q4. Baby 700 1 x 8.2 heavy howitzer.

238 v8. Baby 700 1 x 150mm howitzer



224 u3. Gun Ridge North 1 x 120mm howitzer



250 o7. t1. Anafarta/Salt Lake Ridge 9" & 4.7" field guns



212 r5 Olive Grove 2 x 150mm field guns.

203 o5. Olive Grove 6" howitzer.
203 b5. 1 x 150mm howitzer. 1 x 8.7 Krupp mantel gun.



202 t4. Olive Grove 1 x 150mm field gun. 1 x 12omm field gun.

194 o3. or h3. 303 x. Olive Grove 2 heavy guns.
194 r2. Olive Grove East 2 x 150 mm howitzers.

212 l5. Kaba Tepe 1 x 150 mm howitzer



(225 & 226 2 x 6" or 1 x 8.2")

So what do we end up with;



one 9"



one 8.7 Mantel



one 8.2" (or two)



eight 150mm



two 120mm



one 4.7"



one 6" (or three)



two heavy guns possibly 105mm



possibly 17 Heavy guns



This should give us at lest 1x 210mm Bty (8th Heavy Arty Regt?) with its 2 guns at;



238 q4. Baby 700 1 x 8.2 heavy howitzer,and

250 o7. t1. Anafarta/Salt Lake Ridge 9"



And 1x120mm Bty (8th Heavy Arty Regt?) with its 2 guns at;



224 u3. Gun Ridge North 1 x 120mm howitzer

202 t4. Olive Grove 1 x 12omm field gun.

5th Obüs/How Bty (2x 15cm Krupp K16 field guns)



where its guns are is unknown but possibly 212 r5 Olive Grove 2 x 150mm field guns



3rd (105 mm) Obüs/How Bn -2x batteries each with 4 obüs guns (total 8 guns)



There are only 2 guns 105mm marked on the maps which would not account for all these guns?



was this a mixed Artillery Bn with 105mm and other types (like one 4.7" )



But what about the 8 x 150mm guns, and (6") guns



As yet no possible unit is known unless these guns were part of 3rd Obus/How Bn and their caliber was not 150mm or 6" but lower or they were a mixed Arty Bn?



The other gun not found was this one?



one 8.7 Mantel



Its known that the Turks had at lest 130 - 8,7cm L/24 FK at the start of the war but not what unit it was in but its possible these were just field guns?


Cheers

S.B

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