German Asia Corps

[stevebecker]

Mates,

Surprisingly we have not discussed this Corps of the Turkish Army?

The German parts of the Palestine operations are known as the Pasha II group and the 146th Infantry Regt, but these units did not form the Asia Corps in Sept 1918.

When we discuss this area the two areas get crossed much like the 146th Turkish Regt and the German 146th Regt in the same area.

But the Asia Corps was raised as part of the Turkish 8th Army and along with the 22nd Corps formed the major units of the Army.

Both Turkish and Allied accounts show the Corps had the 16th Div and 19th Div

The possibility of the units of the Pasha II Group in this Corps is unknown, while the German 2Bn/146th Regt was shown in the 22nd Corps before Sept?

Allied reports give these Corps units (dated Sept 1918)

701st FAR (German) 1Bn (2x 77mm guns) 2Bn (4x 105mm how) 3Bn (4x 105mm how) 15th AA Bty (4x 77mm AA guns)

Turkish 2Bn/48th FAR (8x 75mm Guns)
16th Heavy How Bty (4x 150mm how)
140th Heavy How Bty (1x 150mm how)
120th AA bty (2x 77mm AA guns)

701st 702nd 703nd Cav Troops (German)
possibly Turkish 88th 89th 130th SAA Columns 212th Field Hosp 73rd and 74th Bakys

So far I have not confirmed who commanded this Corps or the other appointments (CofS, ADC ops officer and so on)?

Do you know any of these officers?

I have records of some German officers with the Asia Corps but unknown if it was the Pasha Group or the Asia Corps?

Col von Frankenberg und Proschlitz (German) CofS - Maj Solger (German) & Capt Kurtcebe (German)

Can you fill in some of these gaps?

Cheers

S.B

[Tosun Saral]

Capt Kurtcebe (Colonel general Noyan) was not (German) he was Turkish. Turkish CoSofGerman Asia Corps.

[stevebecker]

Tosun,

Thank you.

S.B

[Skarpskytten]

Steve, here is a bunch of officer names for you:

Pascha I


Pascha II


Pascha II Reinforcements


(The photos are from asiakorps.de, who in turn has taken them from „Jilderim“. Deutsche Streiter auf Heiligem Boden. (Schlachten des Weltkrieges 4). 2. Aufl. Gerhard Stalling, Oldenburg i. O. / Berlin, 1925. The book can be found here: http://digi.landesbibliothek.at]

[stevebecker]

Skarp,

Mate thanks for that,

Nice to see some of these officers named , even if my old German is hard to read most of them?

Can you or someone confirm these I can't read?

The commander of the 146th Regt Masurian I have as - LtCol Wilmer, but has not what I can read here, but what his name is hard to read like Hammerstein- something?

And his three Battalion commanders
1Bn - Capt Hehmann
2Bn - Maj Bergius
3Bn - Capt Behrends

201st Bde - Col Von Oppen

can you read what name in the Brig Adjt - ObLt Rupert?

Did I read that right and 703rd Bn - Capt Grassmann KIA 14-7-18 but who replaced him?

601st MG Bn - Maj Mayer

607th MG Co - Lt Baque
606th MG Co - Lt Rokfothen
604th MG Co - Lt Leger
602nd MG Co - Lt Steiger
601st MG Co - Lt Stahl

The sixth company of this Bn was destroyed after Romani and appears not rebuilt

605th MG Co - Lt Von Benkwitz PoW Aug 1916 at Romani

AA Batterys

133rd AA Sect - Lt Strauch
142nd AA Sect - Lt Behrend
28th AA sect - Lt Tzjdujchowski
177th AA Bty - Lt Hentelmann

Can you correct these names if I spelled them incorrect?

Cheers

S.B

[Skarpskytten]

Gothic script! Nuts!

146th Regt Masurian regt commander

Hammerstein-Gesmold



And his three Battalion commanders

All correct.


201st Bde Brig Adjt - ObLt Rupert?

Kuwert!



Did I read that right and 703rd Bn - Capt Grassmann

Grassman, yes. Replaced by Sternberg.


601st MG Bn - Maj Mayer

Correct

607th MG Co - Lt Paque
606th MG Co - Lt Rosskothen
604th MG Co - Lt Seger
602nd MG Co - Lt Steiger
601st MG Co - Lt Stahl

AA Batterys

133rd AA Sect - Lt Strauch
142nd AA Sect - Lt Behrend
28th AA sect - Lt Tzschuschowski
177th AA Bty - Lt Henkelmann

[stevebecker]

Mate,

Thank you.

That helps a lot.

I notice that Maj Mayer (601st MG Bn) was replaced by what looks like a Maj Michaelis 5-12-17

Is the name and date correct?

S.B

[Tosun Saral]

On the evening of Sept 30th 1918 Col. von Oppen had following units under his command.
- 500 men of Asia Corps
- Turkish 43rd Inf. Div which consisted of only 7 battalions a few batteries. The battalions had only 200-300 men, totally: 1500 men with rifles.
- German Adolt Detachment with 30-40 Kuk and german soldiers and 16 MGs
Source: Mirliva Sedat (Lt.Gen. Doğruer) , Filistine Veda (A Farewell to Palestine)

[Skarpskytten]

I notice that Maj Mayer (601st MG Bn) was replaced by what looks like a Maj Michaelis 5-12-17

Is the name and date correct?

Yes!

[stevebecker]

Mate,

That's interesting.

A British Intell document reports that this MG Bn was disbanded or at least its Machine Guns were handed over to the Turks around Jan 1917.

Its not shown on any British Intell reports during 1917?

So if Maj Michaelis took over on the 5th Dec 1917 where was this MG Bn?

Cheers

S.B

[stevebecker]

Tosun,

Do you have any details on Col Sedat Bey (Dogruer)

I know him as commander 19th Div from Oct 1917 to ?

Do you have more?

43rd Div late in the war had been stripped of troops, British reports give these units;

138th Regt shown railway force Maan 10-16 to 9-17

shown Feb 1917 Allied reports - 67th Regt 136th Regt 138th Regt + 135th Regt (57th Div) - (138th Regt att 3rd Cav Div 2-17 to 3rd Div 3-17) (135th Regt returned 57th Div date unknown)

shown 67th Regt to 27th Div Oct 1917

shown Oct 1917 allied reports 136th Regt (1650 men) with 19th Div 9-17

shown Dec 1917- 80th Regt (27th Div) + 136th Regt - Mevlevi Regt - shown 137th Regt (44th Div) replaced the 138th Regt to 3rd Cav Div

shown Feb 1918 Allied reports 2xBns Mevlevi Regt + 539Bn 540Bn 541Bn Coastal defences Units

Artillery

shown Allied reports Feb 1918 - 259th Heavy Bty (2x150mm Naval guns) 2Bn/23rd FA Regt (8x105mm guns) 6Bn/23rd FA Regt (4x 75mm guns)

shown July 1918 Allied reports - 1Bn/43rd FA (8x 77mm guns) 2Bn/43rd FA (8x 77mm guns) 4Bn/43rd FA (8x 77mm guns)

Support Units

4th Sqn 29th Cav Regt - 3Co/12th Engineer Bn - 12th Medical Co - 43rd Field Hosp - 43rd cooking plat - 1Co/8th telegraph Bn

shown 1918 Allied reports 42nd Field Hosp 43rd Baky 1Co/8th telegraph Bn

S.B

[Skarpskytten]

Mate,

That's interesting.

A British Intell document reports that this MG Bn was disbanded or at least its Machine Guns were handed over to the Turks around Jan 1917.

Its not shown on any British Intell reports during 1917?

So if Maj Michaelis took over on the 5th Dec 1917 where was this MG Bn?

Cheers

S.B

This unit is a mistery. In the Slachte and Gefechte, it is only mentioned as figthing at Romani (which we all know it did). After that it was not in combat, if we are to beleive Slachte and Gefechte.

Possibly, remained in Turkey as a training unit? Or was part of it turned into IrakgruppP? I have no idea, but there is something fishy going on.

Whats our source for being disbanded or turning over its MGs in jan -17?

[stevebecker]

Mate,

British Intell documents dated Jan 1917 report that these companies were to be disbanded and their MGs given to Turkish formations.

From what I can find These do show up in British Intell reports later in the year and as late as;

shown June 1917 Allied reports - 4th Army with

20th Corps & 22nd Corps + 601st MG Bn (6xCo's) (36 MG's) + 101st TMB 103rd TMB (12x TM's) 142nd AA Sect (6x AA guns)

Surprising the British show all six companies in June 1917 when I know the 605th MG Co was disbanded or was it?

So it appears they were around possibly at Army level and used where needed?

I should qualify the above;

British Intell reported 4th Army as Army Troops with these MG Cos

602 603 605 606 607 608 (36 MGs)

also with the 20th Corps as Corps Troops

601st MG Co & 604th MG Co (12x MG's) + 267th MG Co & 279th MG Co (12xMG's)

So the British are showing some eight German MG Companies with this MG Bn?

Cheers

S.B

[Skarpskytten]

Thanks.

The plot thickens.

I hope to shed some more light on this, some time in the distance future.

[stevebecker]

Skarp,

Mate can you show the officers with the 60th FAR on these lists?

shown March 1917 Allied reports 60th FAR (4x 150mm How & 4x 100mm How att 16th Div at 1st Gaza)

commander looks like Capt Upfel

There appears to be four Batteries but what guns they have is unknown by your list

1 Bty (2 guns) - Lt Obnnude?
2Bty (4 guns) - Capt Betri?
3Bty (2 guns) - Capt Raumann?
4Bty (2 guns) - Capt Hartung?

The British report that this Artillery Battalion was disbanded and the guns given to the Turks, but no date on that?

Can you find any thing on this unit in German records?

Cheers

S.B