Italy and paratroopers of Div. H. Göring

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Custermen
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#16

Post by Custermen » 14 Oct 2006, 20:22

Thanks. That helps.
But what about in Italy?? Many books will have a photo of Germans in Sicily or early days of Italian Campaign(Salerno & Anzio) and the photo is labeled HG Division.

Also, I have the large book "Salerno 1943: 'Operation Avalanche' " by Angelo Pesce that has hundreds of photos. One photo is a group of PWs in tan uniforms with Luftwaffe insignia and no helmet and one is wearing a camo smock. Another photo is a dead medic that is labeled as paratrooper and he is wearing a standard infantry helmet --- I don't see anything that would identify has either Division HG or FJ.
So would my general rule of thumb be correct for Sicily and Italy until May 1944??

Steve

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#17

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 17 Oct 2006, 02:53

Well if it says that there divison HG then they must be,the wore the normal german helmet,some wore Waffen-SS camo smocks,had there own insignia different from the Fallschirmjäger.
As for Salerno the FJ fought around there,as im shure did the div HG ,some FJ did wear the normal helmets too in combat, maybe you could post the pictures?
thanks.


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#18

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 12 Nov 2006, 16:28

A map of the Anzio/Nettuno-Bridgehead in February 1944 :

http://i9.tinypic.com/2eolc1d.jpg

Sorce :

Kurt Baden "Feldpostnr. 00599E" , Vol.1

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Thanks

#19

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 14 Nov 2006, 06:40

Thanks for the map Jan-Hendrik. 8-)

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#20

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 14 Nov 2006, 11:01

Here is another one for the 27th February 1944 , source as above :

http://i15.tinypic.com/2dvimhg.jpg

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#21

Post by Oasis » 14 Nov 2006, 15:18

Hi Jan-Hendrik
have you some more maps for example about Gothic line and/or Northafrica ??
Regards

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#22

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 14 Nov 2006, 16:41

Most deatailed overview on the italian campaign if have seen so far you find in the mentioned Volumes by Kurt Baden , for further infos take a look in here :

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... c&start=45

in my post regarding :

26.Panzderdivision/Panzergrenadierregiment 9

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#23

Post by Oasis » 10 Dec 2007, 21:11

I can add to this old topic an information received (documented) from Deutsches Historisches Institut in Rome:
on 6 april 1944 there was in Crespellano (west of Bologna) 2. Kp. Fallschirm-Panzer-Aufklärungs Abteilung Hermann Göring Division.

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Toni

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#24

Post by FRANCY RITTER » 11 Dec 2007, 10:47

Fallschirmjäger: wrote:Well if it says that there HG divison then they must be,the wore the normal german helmet,some wore waffen ss camo smocks,had there own insignia different from the fallschirmjäger.
As for salerno the FJ fought around there,as im shure did the HG div,some FJ did wear the normal helmets too in combat,maybe you could post the pictures?,thanks.

Two rare pics ON HG soldiers from my thread..... Hermann Goring soldiers with Waffen-SS camouflaged in the "Uniforms, Headgear & Insignia " section .
Hello to all!!
Two very nice (and rare) photos of soldiers belonged to Luftwaffe Elite division Hermann Göring with Waffen-SS Blurred Edge "Mint" for M.38.Tarnjake ...and Waffen SS Type I M38 Mid to Late War Overprint/Plane Tree Number 3 for helmet cover (second soldier fron the left in the first photo) ..

From ebay exp.auction


Image

Image

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Peter H
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#25

Post by Peter H » 11 Dec 2007, 12:52

Fallschirmjager do a house to house search,Italy 1944.

From Time-Life's The Third Reich:The Southern Front
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fj.jpg
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Peter H
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#26

Post by Peter H » 11 Dec 2007, 12:57

No members of Division HG wore Fallschirmjäger helmets in Italy.FJR 5 was destroyed in Tunisia.

The reconsituted HG had ample manpower to reform. When it was in Belgium in late 1942 it had 30,000 or so men on its books. Those lost in Africa were soon replaced.

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#27

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 12 Dec 2007, 00:21

Yea FRANCY RITTER i just posted not long ago about these pictures in that thread,thanks and Peter for the new picture to me. And on the HGR-D shure went through a lot of changes,this info below says france in october 1942 it was a Brigade (how large is that in men?),then added another 5,000 Luftwaffe volunteers and FJR 5. So is this the 30,000 men or so,and was it realy that large too, like thats pretty large for a panzer divison isnt it? or because it was Hermann Görings own one it had to be large in size, thanks.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2622

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#28

Post by Peter H » 12 Dec 2007, 05:23

Bruce Quarrie relates that the new HG,raised after the debacle in Tunisia, was raised as a panzer division from the 19,000 remaining cadres still in France/Belgium.This is after the first 11,000 HG members had been wiped out in Africa.It appears that Hermann Göring provided his namesake division with plentiful recruits.

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Hermann Göring units

#29

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 12 Dec 2007, 07:18

I thought it was a Panzer-Divison in tunisia(get mixed up or forget with all these name changes too), well see it was Division Hermann Göring and had panzer units in it,but 11,000 men is small then for a divison right? But May 1943 it became Panzer-Division Hermann Göring when formed in sicily to fight the allies there.
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2622
Divison Hermann Göring,Oct 1942-May 1943.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2704
Panzer-Division Hermann Göring,May 1943-April 1944.More panzer units or just a name change realy,and they shure had a few of them.Next it was the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division Hermann Göring ,and then when the Fallschirm-Panzergrenadier-Division 2. Hermann Göring came about in Oct 1944, the prior divison had to be called the Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1. Hermann Göring of course.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2639
Fallschirm-Panzer-Division Hermann Göring later(Oct i suppose) Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 Hermann Göring, May 1944 - May 1945.

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2640
Fallschirm-Panzergrenadier-Division 2 Hermann Göring, October 1944 - May 1945.

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Peter H
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Re: Italy and "Hermann Göring "Div. paratroopers

#30

Post by Peter H » 02 Apr 2008, 14:20

HGD atrocity in Italy:

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/partisans1.htm
A typical example is the Civitella atrocity, one of those cases. which has been completely investigated. Partisan Bands had been operating in the area, attacking lone German lorries and motor cycles. On June 18th, 1944, two German soldiers were killed and a third wounded in a fight with Partisans in the village of Civitella. Fearing reprisals, the inhabitants evacuated the village but when the Germans discovered this, punitive action was postponed. On June 29th, 1944, when the local inhabitants were returning and were feeling secure once more, the Germans carried outs well organized reprisal, combing the neighbourhood. Innocent inhabitants were often shot on sight. During that day 212 men, women and children in the immediate district were killed. Some of the dead women were found completely naked. In the course of investigation, a nominal roll of the dead has been compiled, and 'is complete with the exception of a few names where bodies could not be identified. Ages of the dead ranged from 1 year to 84 years. Approximately 100 houses were destroyed by fire; some of the victims were burned alive in their homes.

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