Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

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Bob_Mackenzie
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Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#1

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 21 Aug 2009, 23:49

Gents

Anyone know how this unit was organised? beyond 5 Companies?

http://www.ww2.dk/ground/fallschirm/faufkl12.htm

Cheers

Bob

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#2

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 22 Aug 2009, 23:56

Sort of answered my own question, at least for Normandy

http://w1.183.telia.com/~u18313395/norm ... 2fsaa.html


Luft 76
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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#3

Post by Luft 76 » 02 Sep 2009, 20:45

Yes, indeed. Fallsch.Aufkl.Abt. 12 had 5 Kompanien :
1. Kp. : Panzerspähwagen
2. u. 3. Kp : SPW
4. Kp.(schwer) : 9 Pak 40 ; 4 Flak 38, 2 s. IG, and several sMG
5. Kp. : Versorgung.
Kommandeur der Abt. was Hptm. Bodo Göttsche (KIA in august).

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#4

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 02 Sep 2009, 21:24

Luft 76 wrote:Yes, indeed. Fallsch.Aufkl.Abt. 12 had 5 Kämpanien :
1. Kp. : Panzerspahwagen
2. u. 3. Kp : SPW
4. Kp.(schwer) : 9 Pak 40 ; 4 Flak 38, 2 s. IG, and several sMG
5. Kp. : Versorgung.
Kommandeur der Abt. was Hptm. Bodo Göttsche (KIA in august).

That is what is was planned for it to have but it never actually had any armoured cars or SPW.
Alan

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#5

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 03 Sep 2009, 15:39

Whats your source Alan?

Cheers

Bob

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#6

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 03 Sep 2009, 18:53

Bob, reading what Zetterling has to say on the link you posted yourself and checking through the various links that we have with the allocations od SdKfz 250 and 250/9, these show no record of the unit being sent the vehicles.

http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 192#165192

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 1ece36812c
Alan

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#7

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 04 Sep 2009, 13:52

Bob, I also looked here to see if they'd been issued any SdKfz 233's or 234/3's, but no.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1050647

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... &start=150
Alan

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#8

Post by Bob_Mackenzie » 04 Sep 2009, 19:49

Bob, reading what Zetterling has to say on the link you posted yourself
Sorry Alan it appears I grow old an senile :oops:

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#9

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 04 Sep 2009, 21:40

Bob, I thought that you'd asked me so that the others would know what you and I knew from talking elsewhere !
Alan

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Re: Fallschirmjager Aufklarungs-Abteilung 12

#10

Post by [email protected] » 24 Mar 2015, 21:11

My Dad Karl Josef Vietoris was Truppenführer in the 3. Kompanie of FschAA 12. His Leutnant at one point was Fritz Terjung, who was hit by a sniper with my Dad beside him. He was ordered to Bodo Goettsche's HQ just before it was hit by jabos and the Hauptmann lost his life. He fought at St. Lo and was among the troops who broke out at Falaise along with SS elements. He was under Eugen Meindl ever since the days of the Sturm Regiment at Malemes. They had orders then not to open fire to avoid detection. My Dad took out a tank, which was firing back into the pocket. He was awarded the job of securing the rear for this and his Kompanie never reached the Orne. Von Koenitz, who had flown Ju88s at Crete for example was now Kompanie commander. He drove into St Lambert fool-heartedly on a motorbike and was strung up by the Poles. My Dad took over the Kompanie again and moved them into the town. The Poles were hiding in the cellars and the paras dispatched many of them in retaliation with Teller mines. My Dad was captured on 12 August 1944, but had removed his rank insignia to avoid detection. The Poles knew his name. He used the name Esse, which was the surname of a close relative, Otto Esse. Otto Esse took over from Hans Martin Schleier, who was murdered by the Bader-Meinhoff gang. My Dad's papers as a POW in USA show that there was no proof of his rank of Oberfeldwebel and he was treated as an enlisted man. He met my Mum as a POW in Shooters Hill, SE London and lived in the UK for the rest of his life as a nurseryman. He died aged 91 on 8 March 2011, still a proud German. I too am a proud German, although born and raised in UK - how could I be anything else?

http://forum.axishistory.com/download/f ... &id=346301
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Re: Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#11

Post by Luft 76 » 29 Mar 2015, 20:05

Very interesting, Karlviet

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Re: Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#12

Post by spannermann » 30 Mar 2015, 20:43

Hi,
This unit has often been misrepresented because of its original but theoretical Gliederung that showed an OOB that was nearly that of a Typ 44 Panzer Aufkl Abt, and seen in Pz and Pz Gren divisions of the time.

Quite why this type of unit was originally proposed is a mystery, as a fully equipped PzAA would have had about 150 plus, armoured vehicles, and Fallschirmjager units are really infantry type units, and whilst II Fs Korps did indeed have some StuG III in its Fs StuG Abt 12, if a Pz AA had been added, this Fs Korps would have almost become a minature Panzer Division. Apart from the Hermann Goering units and the StuG III's in I and II Fs Korps, no other large armoured Fallschirm units are known of.

However an OOB of a Pz AA was never implemented but an entirely different OOB was organised and used in Normandy, the information for this difference has come from the United States Archives where original WW2 POW interrogation reports of ex-Fs AA 12 are held. Their combined descriptions were that of a much weaker and rather poorly equipped infantry Aufklarungs unit, as follows;-

Stab Hpth Gottsche, with 1x 6x6 ex-Italian armoured car and 3x ex-Italian B4 tanks

1st Kp Lt V Konitz, with several Pkw and Lkw, 3x half-tracks (possibly Kettenkrad), 2x 8cm mortars and an 8,8cm Puppchen

2nd Kp Lt Runge, same equipment as 1st Kp

3rd Kp Lt Tereus, same equipment as 1st kp

4th Kp Lt ?, 4x 2cm Flak guns plus MG's

5th Kp Lt Ilig, Schwere Kp with 1x 12cm mortar, 2x Pak 40, 6x MG's, 12x Lkw

6th Kp Lt lanefeld, Vors Kp with 20-30 Lkw

Very much an entirely different OOB to that originally planned, photos of the 1st Kp Italian armoured car can be seen in Panzer Wrecks 17, pages 70 and 71, but they also have printed the wrong OOB for this unit.

cheers leonard paul

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Re: Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#13

Post by jpz4 » 30 Mar 2015, 20:49

The Panzerwrecks guys did post that correction on their Blog BTW:
http://panzerwrecks.com/wordpress/?p=1312

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Re: Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#14

Post by Luft 76 » 30 Mar 2015, 21:21

Interesting additions, guys. I discover how the reality is different about this unit and how many mistakes were published in france.
Thanks.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12

#15

Post by spannermann » 30 Mar 2015, 21:32

Hi Jpz4,

thanks for the link to the blog, I never knew it existed, and yes that is my orignal letter to them,

cheers leonard paul

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