12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

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EugE
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12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#1

Post by EugE » 30 Aug 2011, 19:36

May someone help me with 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung the part of II. Fallschirm-Korps at 06.44-07.1944. Me need info about the strength, armament & military hardware. In advance grateful for everybody!
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Kantemirovka
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#2

Post by Kantemirovka » 02 Sep 2011, 12:07

You can find something here.
"We all die. The goal isn't to live forever. The goal is to create something that will."
Chuck Palahniuk


EugE
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#3

Post by EugE » 02 Sep 2011, 14:44

According to the previous post:
{Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 12
This battalion was raised in January 1944 to be a permanent component of II. Fallschirm-Korps.
The battalion had the following authorized organization:
1. Kompanie Armoured Cars
2. Kompanie SPW (with 47 MG and two 8 cm mortars)
3. Kompanie SPW (with 47 MG and two 8 cm mortars)
4. Kompanie schwere Kp. (15 MG, four 2 cm Flak guns, nine 7,5 cm AT guns, 2 infantry howitzers)
5. Kompanie Versorgungskompanie

On 17 May it was however far from complete. It had yet received none of its armoured cars and only half of its mortars. Many of the units of II. Fallschirm-Korps were only partially equipped, manned and trained. It is possible that during the three weeks between 17 May and D-Day the battalion received equipment to bring it up to strength, but that would still leave the training of the unit in a less than satisfactory state.

According to Blauensteiner, the cheif of staff of II. Fs.Korps, the battlion was equipped with Volkswagen passenger cars and trucks not capable of cross country movement. He estimated that it had a manpower strength of 900 men.5 Effectively the battlion seems to have been a motorized infantry unit.}

1 what about - 1. Kompanie Armoured Cars? Was he fully equipped before invasion of allies?
2 what about - 2. & 3. Kompanie SPW (with 47 MG and two 8 cm mortars). No any SPW? Volkswagen passenger cars - not VW 166 Schwimmwagen or Kübelwagen?
3 what about - 4. Kompanie schwere Kp. (15 MG, four 2 cm Flak guns, nine 7,5 cm AT guns, 2 infantry howitzers) - she was completed?
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#4

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 02 Sep 2011, 16:16

You're confusing me with the questions at the end of your last post since you have already answered them yourself in the same post.
Alan

EugE
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#5

Post by EugE » 03 Sep 2011, 22:39

Alanmccoubrey wrote:You're confusing me with the questions at the end of your last post since you have already answered them yourself in the same post.
No, this questions are not clear for me. What mean Volkswagen passenger cars?
1. Kompanie Armoured Cars equipped by Volkswagen passenger cars?
4. Kompanie schwere Kp. (15 MG, four 2 cm Flak guns, nine 7,5 cm AT guns, 2 infantry howitzers) - she was completed, also equipped by Volkswagen passenger cars?
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#6

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 04 Sep 2011, 09:55

They would be VW Kübelwagen, cars made by VW to carry passengers, as oppossed to cargo carrying vehicles. The "heavy" compnay would have had towing vehicles appropriate to the guns, the VW was not appropriate.
Alan

der Fleißige
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#7

Post by der Fleißige » 06 Sep 2011, 23:23

Hi!
It's always difficult to pinpoint things in late war German OOB/TOE as the Germans had to compensate and commandeer whatever they could find useful - and the paperwork got lost or the people who had the knowledge got killed.

Regarding this unit - it's obvious it never got the men or the equipment that it should have had - according to the KStN.

So more or less this unit had two-wheel drive cars and lorries to drive/tow whatever they had.
For instance the VW Kübelwagen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_K%C3%BCbelwagen

More interesting is perhaps to try an approach from these links:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 3&t=157073

http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/threa ... 90&sid=289

From these we probably can say it didn't get any German armour(ed cars) ...

However from some sources:
http://fallschirmjager.tumblr.com/post/ ... ger-of-the

http://www.39-45.org/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=20760

together with
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ?p=4803432

http://books.google.com/books?id=mLCfnE ... rm&f=false

One can't help wonder: If they did have six Panzerspähwagen Lince 202(i) and four Panzerspähwagen AB41 201(i) in Normandy - did they come from some Truppenübungsplatz (ErsatzHeer)?

:?

EugE
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#8

Post by EugE » 09 Sep 2011, 17:25

If I understand correctly the 1 coy did not used PSW? and was equipped by Volkswagen Kübelwagen? The references from previous post don't answer on this question. Nevertheless thanks for the help.
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Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#9

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 09 Sep 2011, 18:15

EugE wrote:If I understand correctly the 1 coy did not used PSW? and was equipped by Volkswagen kubelwagen? The references from previous post don't answer on this question. Nevertheless thanks for the help.

If by that you mean that the 1.Kp. did not use armoured cars then you are correct and as has been repeated several times in several answers they were equipped with VW Kubelwagen.
Alan

santini
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#10

Post by santini » 12 Sep 2011, 00:33

Hello everyone. First I like to apologize for my bad English. This is my first post in this forum, despite reading it during the last years.

Hat I wrote below is from an article in French magazine “Armes Militaria”, nº263, Juin 2007, www.militaria-mag.com It`s about the Fallschirmjager at Saint-Lô:

“Its E-M (Stabs Kp ?????) it’s equipped with 6x Italian armoured car and 3x Italian light cars type AB 41/43. These unite it’s composed by 5 companies.

1 Kp- (Lt Von Konitz): Equipped with 3x Panzerspahwagen for each of its five sections. The three firsts are modelled on sections of the infantry of the Heer. The four is heavy (schere) and the five is a section of assault (sturmtrupp).
Each section has 2xlight machine guns, 1x weapon with telescope, 1x rifle grenade launcher and several FG 42, Stg 44 and MP 40. The first three also have 2x trucks. The four have 1x Kubelwagen and 2x trucks, but only 2 platoons. The first has s.MG and the second 2x mortars of 81mm.

2 Kp- (Lt Runge): 15x SPW, MG`s and 2xmortars of 81mm. Composition identical to the 1 Kp.

3 Kp- (Lt Tereux): Identical to the 1 and 2 Kp

4 Kp- (Haupt. Raabe): Heavy coy armed with 15x MG`s, 4x Flak 2 cm, 9x Pak7,5 cm and 2x infantry guns.

5 Kp- (Lt LLig): It has three sections. The first one it´s equipped with 1x mortar of 120mm, The second has 2x 7,5 cm and the third (pionniers) has 6x MG 42 and several Fg 42. It has 12x trucks.

6 Kp- (Lt landefeld) Versogungskompanie has 20 to 30 trucks.

The size of the battalion reached less than a thousand of men´s in March of 44, mainly from the FJR 9, Major Stephani.
Haupt. Gottscghe took command of the new unit formed and trained at Moret, near Paris.”


There is another French magazine “Batailles” Nº 47 Jul-Ago 2011 www.bataillesmag.com that have an article about German units in Normandy and it said about the Fallschirm-Aufklarugs Abteilung

“ 1 Kp. Equipped with armoured cars and autoMG´s.

2 Kp. And 3 Kp. Equipeed with spw (sdkfz 251), 47x MG´s and 2x 81 mm mortar

4 Kp. (schwere). Equipped with 15x MG´s, 2X canons Flak 2 cm, 9x Pak 7,5 cm and 2x canons of infantry.

This coul make an effective unit, but at 17 May this unit received no armoured car and only half of the mortars. Instead of the armoured cars this unit received “tourism cars” Volkswagen and trucks. The effective has 900 men´s.

der Fleißige
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#11

Post by der Fleißige » 13 Sep 2011, 21:12

Hi!
santini wrote:Hello everyone. First I like to apologize for my bad English. This is my first post in this forum, despite reading it during the last years.
Welcome to the forum as an active member - and your English is not bad!

You also made a contribution with your post that points out the change from 4 companies to 5(6?) companies.
(as previously mentioned here: http://www.ww2.dk/ground/fallschirm/faufkl12.htm)

Now if we could verify/find some documents: If they had armour(ed cars) - How many? Which type and where did they get them from?

:)

santini
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Re: 12. Fallschirm-Aufklärungs-Abteilung

#12

Post by santini » 15 Sep 2011, 13:55

In my opinion this battalion was never awarded with armored cars, only on paper. I saw some pictures from this unit and I could see a kubelwagen type 82 with 4 fallschirmjager. In another picture It shows a bus perched with two fallschirmjager in the outside, I can see that in the past this car was a civilian bus, but was ordered to military service and in a third picture it shows a Kfz 70 Horch 108 and a little poor tourism civilian car overloaded with 4 fallschirmjager hanging in the outside of the car. The vehicles are very heterogeneous.

There is a book that may have some information about this unit, called “mourir pour saint-lõ”, Didier lodi, Historie and collections. There is also a version in english.

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