Explanation required: Mob-Nummer

[jmark]

Hi guys,

I'm hoping someone can explain Mob.-Nummern (Mobilisierungs Liste Nummer = Mobilisation list numbers) to me. I completely understand that for reasons of secrecy, aircrews and paratroopers received identification tags (different from the dog-tags issued to Luftwaffe ground troops and the army) which were based on a five- or six-digit Mob.Nummer (mobilisation number).

Now, my questions:
1. When would a FJ have received his Mob-Nummer? Only when he was assigned to an active FJ unit? The reason I ask is because I have the Erkennungsmarken-Nummer (dog-tag number) of a Hauptmann, which reads 62584/1, ie, he was the first person in this FJ unit, but his unit was formed in 1941-1942. Why did he not have a Mob-Nummer before this point in time? As he held the rank of Hauptmann, he was obviously not a new recruit.
2. Once a Mob-Nummer was allocated (together with the corresponding dog-tag), did a FJ then keep these for the rest of his career?
3. Is it safe to assume that an FJ's Mob-Nummer corresponds to the first FJ unit in which he served?

I hope my questions aren't too difficult. There must be someone out there who knows!

Thanks in advance
Jason

[Larry D.]

Hi Jason,

I don't have this book so I cannot guarantee it will answer your question, but it is the only published source I know that addresses Mobilisation-Nummern. Certainly the author must explain them in detail besides just listing them?

Höidal, Jean. Deutsche Erkennungsmarken - Von den Anfängen bis heute: Mit den geheimen Codierungen (MOB-Listen) der Luftwaffe.

Larry

[Ypenburg]

Hello Jason,

The EKM is a real headache thing so I will stick to the Fallschirmjäger-stuff. But we'll have a look at your Hauptmann first:

a) Your Hauptmann was already the Kompanieführer when the EKM-Verzeichniss with Mob.Nr.'s was made. In that case he got the units-MOB-nr. with the nr. 1 and his old EKM-number would be "replaced". A letter would be send to "Der Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle für Kriegsverluste und Kriegsgefangene" in Berlin - Schöneberg with the remark: Veränderungsmeldung zum Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis to notify that his old EKM had been "replaced" with the 62584 -1- .(The notation would be: Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis....) Would he have become the KP-Führer after a Mob.-list was made, or in an already active unit, he most likely would have an EKM-Mob with a much higher number, f.e. 62584 -269- .

Your other questions:
1) A FJ would recieve his Mob-number within the unit he served in. Once he was replaced to another unit a letter would be send, just as mentionned above, in which they mention his name, rank, date of birth, Mob-nr. and the unit he was transfered to. The same would happen if he would lose his dogtag with Mob.nr. only then with te remark which new Mob.br. was provided to him.

2) See 1)

3) No. F.e. A well-known FJ had the EKM Flieger-Div.7/Stab -xx- . He became member of I./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt.1. so transfered from Stab 7.F.D. to I./FJR1. The Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis of I./FJR1 of april 1st 1940 mentions:

Mob. Hptl. Nr.: 62841
Nr. der Erk.M. : X
Name: W.....
Geburtsort und -tag: XX
Heimatadresse: XX
Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis a) Truppenteils: Flieger-Div.7/Stab b) Nr. dieses Ek.M. Verzeichnisses: XX

Another example:
FJ "Falli" has the EKM I./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 -61-. He serves with Stab I./FJR1. April 1940 he recieves the Mob.Nr. The Erkennungsmarkenverzeichniss I./FJR1 mentions:
Mob. Hptl. Nr.: 62841
Nr. der Erk.M. : 100
Name: Falli
Geburtsort und -tag: XX
Heimatadresse: XX
Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis a) Truppenteils: I./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 b) Nr. dieses Ek.M. Verzeichnisses: 61

A letter is send by I./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 to "Der Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle" like I mentioned under a)

After the battle in Holland he is transfered to the Nachrichtenzug II./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt.2.

Now a letter is send by I./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt.1, again, to Der Wehrmachtsauskunftstelle with the remark "Veränderungsmeldung zum Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis" . It mentions

Mob. Hptl. Nr.: 62841
Nr. der Erk.M. : 100
Name: Falli
Grund der Streichung: Versetzt z. II./F.J.Rgt.2 N.-Z.

And everything starts again within II./Fallsch.Jäg.Rgt.2. Falli keeps his EKM 62841, and everytime he changes unit he does not recieve a new Mob.Nr. The old Mob.nr. will be cancelled within the unit he got it and not be given to a new person.

[jmark]

Larry, Ypenburg, thanks for your replies.

Ypenburg, I think I understand MOB.Nr. now! However, I'm still a little bit confused by the EKM. In your last example, you state:

Falli keeps his EKM I./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 -61-, but everytime he changes unit he recieves a new Mob.Nr. The old Mob.nr. will be cancelled and not given to a new person.

Just to be clear: a Falli kept his EKM throughout the war (unless lost) even when he was transferred to different units, right? In the above example, did the Falli's dog-tag actually read " I./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 -61-" or was it "62841/61"? I presume the latter because a dog-tag has been found bearing the MOB.Nr./EKM of "my" Hauptmann's unit (see attached picture).

However, the above statement seems to conflict with something else you wrote (it does to me because I don't comprehend this complicated system):

Your Hauptmann was already the Kompanieführer when the EKM-Verzeichniss with Mob.Nr.'s was made. In that case he got the units-MOB-nr. with the nr. 1 and his old EKM-number would be "replaced".

I'm not sure I understand. Why was his EKM-Nr. replaced? Doesn't a unit's Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis show the EKM (dog-tag numbers) of its men, not their MOB.Nr? When I look at the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis for this particular company of 250 men, it does not start at 62584/1 and continue through to 62584/250. In all, I count 16 different MOB-Nr. in this one company. The Hauptmann I mentioned, plus another 104 men, are listed as having EKM 62584/1 through to 62584/105, but the remaining 145 men have EKMs with 15 different MOB.Nr.

I look forward to getting my head around this issue! Thanks for your help.
Jason

[Ypenburg]

Hello Jason,

Next time I put something in Word first and read it more carefully before posting. I already made an adjustment in my earlier posting.
What I should have said is: The Mob.nr. provided to the FJ replaced the EKM, thus becoming the new EKM for the FJ. That EKM with Mob.nr. would stay with him the rest of his career. So with the example of "Falli": his EKM I./Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.1 -61- was replaced with 62841 -100- . When transfert to FJR2 the 62841 was cancelled within the old unit and used within the new unit.
A nice example you can see in the Soldbuch of FJ Weber on the WAF: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ight=Weber
According to the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis of N.Zug/F.J.Rgt.1 (26.8.1939) he had the EKM Stb.F.J.R.1 -88-
According to the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis of N.Zug/F.J.Rgt.1 (1.4.1940) he was issued EKM 62836 -110- with the remark Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis a) Truppenteils: Stb.F.J.R.1 b) Nr. dieses Ek.M. Verzeichnisses: 88 (The whole N.-Zug received new EKM with Mob.nr. at that time).
As you can see in the Soldbuch he served with severall different units, but his EKM 62836 -110- (Mob.nr.) didn’t change during the war.

As for the EKM of the Hauptmann. It has been changed i.m.o. He started his militairy career somewhere and not with this unit. So at some point his old EKM must have been changed in the coded 62584/1. The moment an unit received its Mob.nr. the EKM-verzeichnis was adjusted accordingly. With your Hauptmann having the nr. 1, like I already said, he most probably was already with the unit, unless the nr. 1 was not giving at first (nicht ausgestellt). Then he joined the unit later and received this nr.

(The only way to find his former EKM will be the WASt. They should have a list with the change reported to them or have made a note in his personall file.)

As f.e. with the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis of S.A. Koch mentions to all men their former EKM, so there’s a list with “Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis” which mentions EKM’s like 4./F.-J.Rgt.1 –xxx- , Stab/III K.Gr.z.b.V.1 –xx-, Fl.Ausb.Btl.16 –xxxx- .All those EKM’s were replaced for a 60550 –xx- EKM.
I’ll add a copy (on which I did some cutting and pasting for obvious reasons) as a small example. To the left the Mob.nr.EKM, to the right the EKM that is replaced.

[jmark]

Hi Ypenburg,

Apologies for the late reply... busy times at the moment.

Thanks very much for the explanation. The situation is now much clearer to me. I guess what happened with "my" unit is that it was established during the period when some men had the old-style EKM and others had the new-style MOB/EKM. Some men already had their MOB-based EKM while 105 members of the company, including the Hauptmann, still had the old-style (eg. Stb.F.J.R.1 -88-). I guess the new question is: When did "my" company receive its MOB-Nummer? What was the general practice? Did a unit only receive its MOB-Nummer a few weeks before going into action? Or was there a general switch from old-style EKM to MOB-Nummer at some point during the war?

I should mention that the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis in my possession does not have the "“Entspricht früherem Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis” column shown on your document. Mine simply has the MOB-based EKM, rank, surname first name, DOB and date of death (this list was compiled after the unit's destruction, hence the unusual format).

Thanks again for your help in clearing up this complicated issue.
Jason

[Ypenburg]

Hello Jason,

I do not know what the general pratice was was but I think it must have been the "a few weeks before going into action" as you mention. The FJ-EKM-verzeichnissen from august 1939 have the old-style. All EKM-verzeichnissen completely "new-style" are dated april 1940. I've checked some AOK6 and AOK18 KTB's I have and happened to see that the reports they recieved from units generally from april 1940 on i.s.o. the unit mention the FP-number. That is in no way effidence to be sure but to me it proofs the "shortly before going into action".

[jmark]

Hi Ypenburg,

I thought I had this figured out but now I'm confused by something. I think we can presume that a unit received its MOB-Nummer before going into action. Can we also presume that the commander would receive the first MOB-Nummer (eg. 62584/1)? Here's my problem:
4./Fallsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 (MOB-Nr. 62584) was deployed at Crete, as shown in some information you posted on another forum:
[Source: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=461067]

Fsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 was raised June 1940 in Halberstadt, Co. Major Derpa (later Co. II./FJR3).
Autumn 1940 it moves to an Airfield near Quedlinburgh, new Co. Hauptmann Baier (WIA Crete).
Gliederung: Stab, Nachrichtenzug, 4 x Kampfkompanie with each 6 x 2cm Gebirgs-Flak 38, Pz.Büchs., sMG.
Crete:
1. Welle - Gruppe West: 3./Fsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 (Olt. Theuerling), Maleme
1. Welle - Gruppe Mitte: 4./Fsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 (Olt. Matthies +), Chania
2. Welle - Gruppe Ost: 1./Fsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 (Olt. Timm), Heraklion
2. Welle - Kräftgruppe Sturm: 2./Fsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 (Olt. Kerrut), Rethymnon

That means the men of 4./Fallsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 were wearing dog-tags based on the MOB-Nummer in May 1941, right? Well, the Erkennungsmarkenverzeichnis (from late 1942) in my possession lists EKM 62584/1 to 62584/105, with 12 gaps in the consecutive numbering (so only 93 men listed in that bank of 105 EKMs). My questions:
• If this unit was deployed at Crete, surely there would have been bigger holes in the ranks due to casualties, transfers, etc.
• If the first EKM based on MOB-Nr. was assigned to the unit commander, why didn't Oblt. Matthies possess EKM 62584/1 (the officer who had it was Oblt. Maurer)?

Hopefully you can shed some more light on the history of this unit in the period 1940-1941. I'd be indebted!

All the best,
Jason

[Ypenburg]

Hello Jason,

The answer to the number-question can be found, i.m.h.o., in the fact when and how the Kp. was raised. The men who were assigned to the newly formed unit would come in and would be handed out the numbers. If, like I mentionned before, the Kp.-Fùhrer wasn´t known at that time he would be handed out a higher number then the men already in the unit. F.e. the number 1 of 14./Fsch.Jàg.Rgt.1 was, according to the EKM-list 1939-1940, not the Kp-Fùhrer and even not an officer. Within the first 125 men of the list not one single officer is mentionned. After the discission was made to form the unit, a small group was assigned to start doing so. In case of 14./FJR1 these were some FW and Obj./Jgr. They are the first in the list. The list originally was the EKM-list noting the 14./Fallsch.Jàg.Rgt.1 -xx-. The new men who joined the unit, were noted in the list in following numbers, and so on. When the MOB-nr. was handed out they simply used this list and replaced the 14./Fallsch.Jàg.Rgt.1 by the MOB-nr. Thus the Kp.-Fùhrer had a much higher number. Would he have been with the unit from day 1 he would have had the number 1 like in other units.

To the best of my knowledge I would quess that the same happened with Maurer. He started out with a small group with new men comming in time after time. He most probably had the highest rank at that moment (and was so called m.d.F.b. "mit der Führung beauftragt" untill a Kp-Fùhrer was assigned), thus recieving EKM 4./Fallsch.Fla.MG.Btl.7 -1-. When the MOB-nr. was handed out they used the same follow-up of numbers so he recieved the 62584 -1-.

That´s the best I can think of at this moment. To your question about the unit´s history I´ll send you an email.

[Simon H]

Just to re-ignite this thread. It is also possible that many Fallschirmjäger never received a Mob-Nummer issued tag, as clearly show below:
http://www.miaproject.net/mia-search-re ... hirmjager/

Kind Regards,
Simon

http://www.lerenfort.fsnet.co.uk