Luftnachrichten-Regiment 52 - Stellung Goldammer

[yannick84]

Hi all,

I am looking for more information on a specific radar site in Belgium.
On "Lexikon der Wehrmacht", I've seen that the 8th Cie of the 2nd Abteilung of. /Ln.Rgt 52
was located in Grammont ( Geraardsbergen ), Belgium between April 1943 and September 1944.
The name of the base was "Stellung Goldammer".

Can anybody help me with this?
I've seen references to a book by Karl-Otto Hoffmann, but this book is very expensive.

I am interested in the location of this site ( I have an idea, but want confirmation by a secondary source )
and the composure and material of the unit.

[kstdk]

Hello

Would it be this:

http://atlantikwallbelgiumboulogne.boxh ... dammer.htm

Regards
Kurt
kstdk

[Larry D.]

According to German and Allied signals intelligence sources, Stellung Goldammer was operated by 7.(Flugm.Mess)/Ln.-Rgt. 52. 8. Kompanie/52 was in S France operating Stellung Muräne at Camp du Larzac/8 km SE of Millau.

L.

[yannick84]

Hi guys,

thanks for the quick replies, but there still remain questions: goldammer seems to be the name for more than one site...
@kstdk: Wortegem is about 30km from Grammont, and the important city of Oudenaarde is in between. It seems strange that they would put the location for this site at Grammont in documents.
@Larry D: the information on http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... ment52.htm is as follows:
7. II. /Ln.Rgt 52
7. Flugmelde-Leit-Kompanie (Stellung "Goldammer")
April 1943
Grammont

All of the units of LN Rgt 52 are located in Northern France and Belgium according to this site.
they name these books as their sources:
Karl-Otto Hoffmann, Die Geschichte der Luftnachrichten-Truppe, Bd. I-III, Kurt Vowinckel Verlag, 1965
Karl-Otto Hoffmann, Deutsches Soldatenjahrbuch 1981-1990, Schild-Verlag, ?Signal-, Telegraphen-, Nachrichten- und Fernmeldetruppe Teil I-X?
Walter König, Oberleutnant a.D., Wehrkundeheft 1957, Deutscher Flugmeldedienst am Kanal 1940?1944
Tessin G. «Deutsche Verbände und Truppen 1918-1939», Biblo-Verlag, Osnabrück, 1974
Werner Niehaus, Die Radarschlacht 1939-1945, Motorbuchverlag, 1977

Does anybody have access to one of these books to confirm this?

Maybe the site at Grammont was called differently and Lexikon der Wehrmacht got their information wrong?
Maybe the site at Grammont was never operational? There are no bunker remains like in a couple of other sites.
What was build by the Germans during WW2 ( destructed in the 1970's ), was a big concrete tower on top of a hill that overlooked the surrounding region.
To me, this seems like a logical structure for a radar tower.
If you want, I can post some pictures of this tower?

[Larry D.]

yannick84,

You are correct - my face is red! When I read my typed notes I failed to notice and read some handwritten scribbles in the margin. 8.(Flugmelde-Leit) Kp./52 (FpN L 52376) was formed in 1943 and operated Stellung Dorsch at Douai. 7.(Flugmelde-Leit) Kp./52 (FpN L 55346) was formed in 1943 and operated Stellung Goldammer at Grammont.


All of the information in the Karl-Otto Hoffmann books can be found on this website:

http://www.gyges.dk/

On the opening page, click on “Research”, then click on “The Luftnachrichten Dienst”, then click on “Flugmeldemess, Jägerleit Stellungen & FuMG (radars)”, then click on the Regiments at the top and the Stellungen choices.

If you are lucky and find a copy of the multi-volume Hoffmann book in a library, then you will only need to look at Band II – Der Weltkrieg, Teil 1: Der Flugmelde- und Jägerleitdienst 1939 – 1945, pages 271-94. There is no mention of the sites in Belgium other than identifying Goldammer and Dorsch on maps that show all of the Stellungen in the West. These pages cover all of the West from fall 1943 to October 1944.

L.

[beaviso]

Goldammer was located near Wortegem. It's right there on the map from summer 1943, between the two railroads, southwest of Ghent.
No other radar site was located near Grammont.
Don't get fixed on those places in K.O. Hoffmann - mostly they are very accurate, but sometimes vary quite a lot from the real location.

M.

[nordfriese]

Hi Yannick!

The "Gyges"-information are from this page:
http://www.ww2.dk/ground/ln/ln52.html
Unfortunately I don't know, where Michael Holm got this information.
I haven't found any information, neither in Hoffmann nor in Tessin.

Maybe the position of Grammont/Geraardsbergen is simply wrong. (?)

Another option is, that there was the "Gerätestellung" (radar-post) at
Wortegem and the "Auswertung" (evaluation) at Geraardsbergen.

This option you can find at some (most?) posts of the "Helle Nachtjagdräume".
Some examples:
6A (later "Küken") - Gerätestellung near Meeuwen - Auswertung near Lanaken
6B (later known as "5/VI") - Gerätestellung near Nieuwerkerken - Auswertung near Hees
6C (later "Glucke") - Gerätestellung near Jauche - Auswertung near Wasseiges
At "Raum 3", the Gerätestellung of 3C (later "Leghorn") was north of Herzlake and the
Auswertung was near Grafeld. At Grafeld they used a T-Hut for Auswertung.

As far as I know, a "Auswertung"-post was just a barrack-area with "less concrete".
Sometimes the main-buildung (T-Hut) was made of bricks.
http://www.gyges.dk/stellungszentrale.htm

Maybe you should search for remains of a T-Hut at/near Grammont/Geraardsbergen.

Best wishes and merry christmas!
Rolf

[Larry D.]

Rolf wrote in part:

Unfortunately I don't know, where Michael Holm got this information.
I haven't found any information, neither in Hoffmann nor in Tessin.

Michael H. got his information from the outstanding Directorate of Intelligence, Sections A.I.3 and A.I.4/British Air Ministry periodic Kriegsgliederung lists of the Luftnachrichtentruppe that are today archived at the British National Archives in London. These lists were compiled from signals intelligence intercepts (ULTRA), captured German documents and P/W interrogations. They list the location and Stellung name of every Ln.-Kp., Ln.-Abt.. Ln.-Rgt., Luftgau-Nachr.Rgt. and selbstandige Ln.-Zug throughout the war beginning in 1941 and ending in March 1945. Very comprehensive.

L.

[yannick84]

Hi all,
a small update on my previous post, I have now some aerial photographs of the site.
The attached one is from September 1944.
Does this look like a T-barrack?
With all the trenches around it, it seems like it was something the Germans wanted to protect.

The shadow is from the brick/concrete tower that was on this site until the 1970's.

[SES]

Hi,
To me that looks more like a Flak tower.
bregds
SES

[nordfriese]

Hi!

Thanks for the picture, Yannick!

... a big concrete tower on top of a hill that overlooked the surrounding region.

To me it looks a bit like a Flugwache...

Best wishes
Rolf

[kstdk]

Hello

Where is this on Google Earth - maybe some one has posted pictures from this site???

Regards
Kurt
kstdk