Fallschirmjager drops NE Stalingrad summer '42

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wintersoldier23
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Fallschirmjager drops NE Stalingrad summer '42

#1

Post by wintersoldier23 » 10 Feb 2006, 05:48

Of my recent knowledge of the eastern front I have heard rumors of such parachutings. Can anyone elaborate? Were they were simply Brandenburg div actions that failed? Or could they have been full scale plans of operation Blue? I have been to Volgograd area and there are some locals that have knowledge of such things occuring, behind their lines during wartime, even on the east back of Voga near Rynock in Aug-Sept 42? Can anyone confirm this? I understand that these groups of Germans were wiped out. Either the Russians or Germans would not to make confirmation of these special actions for political reasons as it would have served neither side at the time.

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Fallschirmjäger
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FJ?

#2

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 10 Feb 2006, 06:08

Yea i dont know of any fallschirmjäger drops at all at this time,maybe brandenburger units more likely,as the FJ where fighting more as ground troops at this time,transported on planes to the front maybe sometimes or train,if was them must have been secret indeed. 8)


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#3

Post by Larry D. » 10 Feb 2006, 19:29

....there are some locals that have knowledge of such things occuring, behind their lines during wartime, even on the east back of Voga near Rynock in Aug-Sept 42.
None that I've ever read about. The Abwehr I and II operations at that time were all in North Caucasia. It sounds like the locals saw aircrew baling out of Ju 88s and He 111s that had been hit. There was a considerable amount of long-range bombing being done along the Volga north of Stalingrad during the summer and fall of 1942. The targets were the river ports at Saratov and Volsk, river traffic on the Volga, rail junctions, stations and trains on the east side of the Volga, etc. A fair number of Luftwaffe bombers were lost on these operations (maybe 50 or so).

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wintersoldier23
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#4

Post by wintersoldier23 » 12 Feb 2006, 09:04

I could have swore that I have heard or read of this engagement as the Germans were exploring the idea of advancing upon the Volga line in the heady days of August. As easy as it was for the elements of the 14 panzer corp reaching the west bank of the volga they could they have tried an adventure of such a nature? I know, from Sept, they experienced strong Russian forces in the NE area trying to relive the Orlovka salient, but could have they have been a secretive alternative plan in place in Aug? I think I may have I have read an article from the 1950's that fallschirmjäger helmets were found by farmers well beyond the known Stalingrad front. this was during the Khrushctev Stalin denunctiation years. Maybe it was all politica in naturel?

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#5

Post by Larry D. » 12 Feb 2006, 15:00

.....but could have they have been a secretive alternative plan in place in Aug?
There may have been talk and planning for such things, but there is no evidence that anything materialized. Remember, Unternehmen "Blau" was about driving to the Volga and then into North Caucasia. North Caucasia was the main objective because of the oil. The Germans saw the Volga as the last natural defensive line before hundreds and hundreds of miles of emptiness as the Steppes undulated eastward toward the Urals. Anyone daring to cross the Volga and set up winter defensive positions to the east of it had better have a whole lot more troops than the Germans did.

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Re: Fallschirmjager drops NE Stalingrad summer '42

#6

Post by brustcan » 01 Mar 2006, 05:37

wintersoldier23 wrote:Of my recent knowledge of the eastern front I have heard rumors of such parachutings. Can anyone elaborate? Were they were simply Brandenburg div actions that failed? Or could they have been full scale plans of operation Blue? I have been to Volgograd area and there are some locals that have knowledge of such things occuring, behind their lines during wartime, even on the east back of Voga near Rynock in Aug-Sept 42? Can anyone confirm this? I understand that these groups of Germans were wiped out. Either the Russians or Germans would not to make confirmation of these special actions for political reasons as it would have served neither side at the time.
Hello! Late 1942 an airborne mission was planned as part of "Operation Blau" One thrust was to be at Stalingrad, and the othr at the Caucasus to the Russian Oil fields. German Alpine troops were to take the northern side of the Caucasian mountain range, with the Paras being dropped around Tuapse, on the southern side. With the mountain barrrier overcome, the Paras and Gebirgsjaeger would move down to the oil fields. Midddle of September preparations were completed, and the Ju-52's were on their departure fields. The order came to stand down, and the operation cancelled. The Paras wnet into the lines, fighting infantry style, defending a 56 mile sector north of Smolensk. Cheers brustcan

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#7

Post by Peter H » 01 Mar 2006, 14:10

Lw Kdo Don(Luftwaffe Kommando Don) participated in the January-March 1943 fighting north of Stalingrad.They were a glider unit,resupplying the 2nd Army.Glider crews,once they landed,joined the ground forces in fighting their way out.Fallschirmjäger helmets would have been worn by these men.

Also something on Brandenburger operations in the Caucasus region:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hp?t=59309
Regarding the Brandenburger FJ-Kompanie: On Nov. 20, 1942, the 4./Lehr.Rgt. Brandenburg became 13./Verband 804 of the Sonderverband Brandenburg. On April 1, 1943, it became the 15.(le.)/4. Rgt. Brandenburg. The company spent most of the Fall of 1942 as the regimental reserve, preparing for airborne operations that never happened (often because the ground advance was too rapid). When the tide turned with the Soviet offensive leading to Stalingrad's encirclement, the FJ-Kompanie was deployed as part of a battle group of I./Lehr.Rgt. under Major Walther. In mid-December 1942, the battlegroup was on the banks of the Terek. On Dec. 16, 1942, the FJ-Kompanie's commander, Hauptmann Kürschner, was wounded and Oblt. Gerlach (I.Btl. adjutant) took over.

By January 1943, Kampfgruppe Walther was still in the Caucasus, at the village of Aleksandrovskoje. It was attached to the 3rd Panzer-Division. The Kampfgruppe, including the FJ-Kompanie, participated in the withdrawal to Rostov-on-Don. Eventually, they were withdrawn and returned to Germany where in April 1943 the division was being formed.
And:
Of course, the FJ-Kompanie wouldn't be the only Brandenburgers with para badges. When it was first formed in February 1942, the leichte Pionier Kompanie Brandenburg ("lei. Pi.Kp. BR"), which would evolve into the Küstenjägerabteilung, included a fair number of personnel drawn from the FJ-Kompanie, along with other Brandenburgers, Sturmpioniere from other units with assault boat experience, KM boat handlers, and other soldiers with special skills.

Except for its I. Zug, sent to North Africa in June, the lei. Pi.Kp. BR was operating in the Black Sea region in 1942. It was withdrawn from Kerch in mid-December and went by train to Langenargen am Bodensee, just below Friedrichshafen.

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THE GLIDER UNIT?

#8

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 02 Mar 2006, 05:51

They where luftwaffe pilots yes or actual fallschirmjäger troopers,as didnt know of any paras in that area ,i would have to look at my fallschirmjäger books to see if its mentioned or not?.

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#9

Post by Peter H » 02 Mar 2006, 09:13

Luftwaffe Kommando Don were glider pilots.They would have been kitted out in FJ helmets,smocks etc as was the practice in operations.Basically glider pilots received infantry training as they had no place to go otherwise after landing.

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#10

Post by mikeshilton » 04 Mar 2006, 17:44

I don't know about Stalingrad,but whilst on Crete in 2001 for the 60th anniversary of the invasion,I was told by an American who was the liason officer for the German vets that FJ had dropped behind Russian lines without parachutes into deep snow,the idea being to give the Russians the idea that the aircraft were just overflying the area.Unfortunately I can't remember anymore.

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#11

Post by Larry D. » 04 Mar 2006, 18:12

mikeshilton wrote:I don't know about Stalingrad,but whilst on Crete in 2001 for the 60th anniversary of the invasion,I was told by an American who was the liason officer for the German vets that FJ had dropped behind Russian lines without parachutes into deep snow,the idea being to give the Russians the idea that the aircraft were just overflying the area.Unfortunately I can't remember anymore.
OUCH! I've never heard that one before, and I've read a lot of books about WW II in Europe over the past 58 years, in English, German and several other languages. It's possible some experiments might have been carried out along those lines, or some jumped out into deep snow because their Ju 52 was about to crash, but intentionally as part of a planned para drop? Hmmm..... On the other hand, there may have been a few Abwehr I and Abwehr II agents or teams inserted behind Russian lines that way from slow moving aircraft at very, very low altitude, but it's only a possibility. It would be interesting if someone could come up with a documented source for this.

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#12

Post by wintersoldier23 » 23 Mar 2006, 06:24

Peter H wrote:Lw Kdo Don(Luftwaffe Kommando Don) participated in the January-March 1943 fighting north of Stalingrad.They were a glider unit,resupplying the 2nd Army.Glider crews,once they landed,joined the ground forces in fighting their way out.Fallschirmjäger helmets would have been worn by these men.

Also something on Brandenburger operations in the Caucasus region:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hp?t=59309
Regarding the Brandenburger FJ-Kompanie: On Nov. 20, 1942, the 4./Lehr.Rgt. Brandenburg became 13./Verband 804 of the Sonderverband Brandenburg. On April 1, 1943, it became the 15.(le.)/4. Rgt. Brandenburg. The company spent most of the Fall of 1942 as the regimental reserve, preparing for airborne operations that never happened (often because the ground advance was too rapid). When the tide turned with the Soviet offensive leading to Stalingrad's encirclement, the FJ-Kompanie was deployed as part of a battle group of I./Lehr.Rgt. under Major Walther. In mid-December 1942, the battlegroup was on the banks of the Terek. On Dec. 16, 1942, the FJ-Kompanie's commander, Hauptmann Kürschner, was wounded and Oblt. Gerlach (I.Btl. adjutant) took over.

By January 1943, Kampfgruppe Walther was still in the Caucasus, at the village of Aleksandrovskoje. It was attached to the 3rd Panzer-Division. The Kampfgruppe, including the FJ-Kompanie, participated in the withdrawal to Rostov-on-Don. Eventually, they were withdrawn and returned to Germany where in April 1943 the division was being formed.
And:
Of course, the FJ-Kompanie wouldn't be the only Brandenburgers with para badges. When it was first formed in February 1942, the leichte Pionier Kompanie Brandenburg ("lei. Pi.Kp. BR"), which would evolve into the Küstenjägerabteilung, included a fair number of personnel drawn from the FJ-Kompanie, along with other Brandenburgers, Sturmpioniere from other units with assault boat experience, KM boat handlers, and other soldiers with special skills.

Except for its I. Zug, sent to North Africa in June, the lei. Pi.Kp. BR was operating in the Black Sea region in 1942. It was withdrawn from Kerch in mid-December and went by train to Langenargen am Bodensee, just below Friedrichshafen.
Ok I'm thoughly confused about the last few posts. I'm guessing that the one operation around Stalingrad failed without much notice outside some artifacts and questionable witnesses? Maybe elite Lufwaffe personnel were involved in glider planes? Interesting nevertheless, but are you guys, including Brustcan, getting things confused with the Soviet 'Mars' campaign against the Rzhev salient abandondment in 42 instead (Smolensk?) Can't see how all this ties together with Stalingrad. I'm just looking for the truth.

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Re: Fallschirmjager drops NE Stalingrad summer '42

#13

Post by fallschirm2 » 01 Sep 2007, 10:28

wintersoldier23 wrote:Of my recent knowledge of the eastern front I have heard rumors of such parachutings. Can anyone elaborate? Were they were simply Brandenburg div actions that failed? Or could they have been full scale plans of operation Blue? I have been to Volgograd area and there are some locals that have knowledge of such things occuring, behind their lines during wartime, even on the east back of Voga near Rynock in Aug-Sept 42? Can anyone confirm this? I understand that these groups of Germans were wiped out. Either the Russians or Germans would not to make confirmation of these special actions for political reasons as it would have served neither side at the time.

You are probably referring to 4/Fallschirm-FLAK-MG-Bataillon. Which operated in this area, although they were only partly air lifted to this area. I believe the final part of the journey was by train. Unfortunately, not much information available because the unit was almost completely wide out. This particular FJ Company has the highest number of members that are still considered to be "missing in action".

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#14

Post by Fallschirmjäger » 01 Sep 2007, 12:02

It was wiped out,how many men?,like i suppose that would have had to be on the russian front too for missing men.But they must be dead most likely and buried around where the fell.Or unless they lived and went ot siberia etc... and died there like many german p.o.w's did.

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#15

Post by fallschirm2 » 01 Sep 2007, 15:36

I have an article written by a survivor dated 1983.

5 Offz., 230 Uffz and Men. went and a handful come back

I believe they operated under Kmapfgruppe Dewald, in the Ortosianowka, Dimitriewka, Rasoschka, Karpowka, Sineokowski and Wolga areas during August and September. According to my DRK book the whereabouts of 40 men from this company remains unanswered?

Regards

David

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