numbers and types of belgian artillery..a new approach?

[daveh]

I have attempted to use the number of guns detailed in the OOB for the Belgian Army given on Niehorster's justly famous OOB site (http://niehorster.orbat.com/) as a basis for identifying the numbers and quantities available to the Belgian Army in May 1940.

To this base I have added a variety of internet and books sources in an attempt to determine the actual (rather than the TOE) numbers and types of artillery weapons available.

Most references I have seen give the Belgian Army a total of 1338 guns of c 20 different types available in May 1940. This figure excludes Anti tank, Anti Aircraft and infantry guns.

(see eg The Campaign of the Belgian army in May 1940
http://home.scarlet.be/vdmeiren/The%20C ... 01940.html)

From Niehorster I have produced the following:

In Army Artillery Regiments:

220mm M16 ...................36
155mm M24 L/38..............12
155mm M17 L/30..............48 with a further 144 in Artillery Regiments attached to Corps
152mm L/13....................24 with a further 8 in Artillery Regiments attached to Corps
150mm K16 L/43...............12
150mm sFH L/17...............48 with a further 24 in Artillery Regiments attached to Corps

In Artillery Regiments attached to Corps and in Divisions

120mm M32.....................48
105mm ..........................96 with Corps and 156 with divisions
75mm............................36 with Corps and 628 with divisions

this gives a total of 1320 or 18 fewer than the suggested 1338 figure given earlier.

There are also

Railway Guns

6 x 170mm Krupp SK
5 x 280mm Bruno SK L/40
1 x 305mmL/12 (Vickers MkII 12” How.)

These formed part of II battalion/5th army Artillery Regiment and if included in the total of guns gives 1332 or 6 short.

Coastal Command

4 x 120mm de Bange M1889
4 x 170mm Krupp
4 x 170mm Krupp
4 x 120mm Naval

these 16 guns formed I battalion/5th army Artillery Regiment and if included in the total of guns gives 1348 or 10 too many.

Schelde Defense

8 x 120mm
4 x 150mm
8 x 75mm

part of V Corps but not included in the Army Artillery, Corps or Divisional figure as yet

This gives a further 20 guns for atotal of 1368 or 30 too many.


Numbers of each type of gun

Turning to the problem of finding numbers for the various types of guns. The following are the only numbers I have found so far :

Canon de 75 modele 1934 a mountain gun.................24
used by the Chasseur Ardennais Divisions
FRC adapted German 10,5cm leFH 16 gun................220
Canon de 76 FRC.............................................198
an infantry gun not included in any of the figures listed above.
120mm model 1931 (Cockerill)...............................24
(entered service 1934 and 24 "on line" 1939)
155mm M24 ................................................."small numbers"

Gun types:
1: Canon de 75 modele 1934: Swedish designed mountain gun.

2: Canon de 75 mle TR: licence built version of the Krupp M06 field gun.

3: Canon de 75mm GPI: a German 10.5cm le FH16 howitzer with its barrel replaced by a lengthened version of the Canon de 75 mle TR

4: Canon de 75mm GPII: A German 7.7cm FK 16 converted to take a lengthened 75mm barrel.

5: Canon de 75mm GPIII: A German 7.7cm FK 16 with a 7.5cm sleeve inserted. This seems to have been the most numerous of these three conversions.

6: Canon de 105 mle 1913: A French, Schneider design

7: Obusier de 105mm GP: WW1 German design.

8: Canon de 120 L mle 1931: A Belgian design.

9: Obusier de 150 L/17: the German WW1 design 15ch sFH 13

10: Canon de 150 L/43: German design , 15cm K16

11: Obusier de 6": British WW1 6" howitzer

12: Obusier de 155: French design, Canon de 155 C mle 1917 Schneider

13: Canon de 155 L mle 1917 Schneider: WW1 French design - a long barrelled version of the above.

14: Canon de 155 mle 1924: Belgian design.

15: Mortier de 220 TR mle 1916 Scneider: French WW1 design,

16: 23.4cmm Howitzer: British 9.2" howitzer

plus 3 types of railway guns, 4 (?) types of coast defence gun, 1 infantry gun

Anti Aircraft guns

Canon de 75 FRC Mle 27 AA gun Belgian design

British 3.7" AA gun

Swedish 40mm bofors made under licence

Anti Tank guns

Con de 47 antichars SA-FRC: Belgian design AT gun.


Notes
75 mm TR gun (Krupp Model 1905)

348 of these guns were bought by the Belgians in 1907. It was still in service in 1940 though in unknown quantities. However 154 were still in active service with the Germans in 1944 under the name of "7,5 FK 235 (b)"

75 mm GPIII
318 of these guns were delivered to the belgian army before 1940.

sources: posts on the axis history forum, eg viewtopic.php?p=977733&highlight=

Wherever I have seen a figure given for the Cockerill 120mm mle 1931 that figure is 24. The figure based on the OOB detailed above gives 48 x 120mm mle 1931.

There is one source that notes 24 in 1939 and it seems highly unlikely that a further 24 guns were built in 1939 - 40.
Hence there are another 24 (120mm?) guns to account for

For the sake of completeness the guns used in the fortified positions were:

Position Fortifiée de Liege ( PFL )
- rattaché : l'escadron blindé de liege ( 12 T13 )
- 7e Bn de mitrailleuses ( statique )
- Fort D'eben Emael ( 2x120 , 16x75 , 12x60AT , 20 HMG , 9 LMG , 4 AAMG )
- Fort Pontisse ( 2x105 , 1x75 , 22 HMG )
- Fort Barchon ( 2x150 , 2x105 , 4x75 , 4 mort 50 , 29 HMG )
- Fort Aubin-Neufchateau ( 4x75 , 3 mort 81 , 5x47AT , 10 HMG )
- Fort Evegnée ( 1x150 , 2x105 , 3 x75 , 25 HMG )
- Fort Fléron ( 2x150 , 4x105 , 4x75 , 26 HMG)
- Fort Chaudefontaine ( 1x150 , 2x105 , 4x75 , 22 HMG )
- Fort Embourg ( 4x75 , 20 HMG )
- Fort Boncelles ( 4x75 , 20 HMG )
- Fort Tancrémont ( 4x75 , 8 mort 81 , 4x47AT ; 26 HMG )
- Fort Flémalle ( 1x150 , 2x105 , 4x75 , 25 HMG )
- Forteresse de Liege ( 4x120 , 6x75 , 2 mort 70 , 4x60AT , 20 HMG )

Position Fotifiée de Namur ( PFN )
- Rattaché : l'escadron blindé de namur ( 12 T13 )
- 6e Bn de mitrailleuses ( statique )
- Fort Marchovelette ( 5x75 , 1 mort 50 , 11 HMG , 7 LMG , 6 AAMG )
- Fort Maizeret ( 2x105 , 4x75 , 5 mort 50 , 2 HMG , 10 LMG )
- Fort Andoy ( 6x75 , 1 mrt 50 , 7 HMG , 7 LMG , 6AAMG )
- Fort Dave ( 3x75 , 1 mrt 50 , 4 HMG , 10 LMG , 6 AAMG )
- Fort St-Héribert ( 2x105 , 4x75 , 13 HMG , 6 AAMG )
- Fort Malonne ( 2x105 , 4x75 , 13 HMG , 7 AAMG )
- Fort Suarlée ( 2x105 , 4x75 , 14 HMG , 7 LMG )

Position Fortifiée d'Anvers ( PFA )
1e ,2e , 3e , 4e , 5e bn de mitrailleuses ( statiques )

Defense Cotiere
- ostende , Fort Wellington ( 4x120 )
- Bredehe ( 4x 170 )
- Knokke ( 4x170 )
- Zeebrugge ( 4x120 )

from:
http://alain.adam.perso.cegetel.net/Belge1.html

see http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... art_01.htm
for a detailed description of these fortifications, including weapons used.

Con de 47 antichars SA-FRC AT gun

Generally a number of c 750 is given for these AT guns although S Zaloga in a Military Modelling article (http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/a ... 71&SP=&v=1) gives a production figure of c 1000. This is almost certainly total production including guns used in AFVs and fortifications.

Once again using Niehorsters OOB details we have the following total of towed 47mm AT guns for each unit type:

Active infantry divisons………....32
Reserve Infantry divisions….....24
Cavalry Divisions……………........16
1st Ch Ard Div……………….......….0
2nd Ch Ard Div……………….......…12
Mot Cav Bde……………………........16

Ch Ard bn in Group K ……....…….8

Giving an overall total of 716 guns.

In addition in the forts of Position Fortifiée de Liege ( PFL ) .9

There are in addition the following units

1 bicycle equipped infantry regiment
1 motorcycle equipped infantry regiment
2 bicycle equipped border regiments,
1 bicycle equipped border bn
2 light mot regiment
8 static regiments.

for which no have further details are provided.

The Infantry Regiments of both types of Infantry Divisions have an 8 gun AT company each as do the Cavalry Regiments of both Cavalry Divisions. Only the Chassuer Ardennais Regiments differ with the 1st Division’s AT guns all being self propelled and those of the 2nd division only numbering 4 per Regiment. Allowing for 8 guns in each of the light motorised and motorcycle regiments and 4 in the bicycle regiments with none in the static regiments we can add

24 + 8 = 32 guns

This gives an overall figure of 757 guns which is in good agreement with the c 750 figure given earlier.

Further 47 mm guns were mounted in AFVs:

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/bel/Belgium.htm
gives a total of 200 T 13 47mm SP AT guns.

Which brings the number of 47mm guns produced to 957

http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... art_01.htm discusses the Belgian fortifications and indicates the numbers of anti tank bunkers built (all eqipped with 47mm guns) and those forts which also had 47 mm AT guns.

Including these the overall total will be in the order of the c 1000 mentioned by Zaloga.

Anti Aircraft guns

Niehorster‘s OOB suggests
94 40mm
108 75 mm
12 94mm

Although I knew that the Belgians bought a small number of Bofors from Sweden (8 in 1935) and that Fabrique Nationale (FN) established a production facility i do not have figures for guns delivered to the Belgian Army.


Any further help would be much appreciated

[The Edge]

Info for Belgian 40mm Bofors production/delivery
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/t ... ofors+guns
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... 254/Part+2

[daveh]

Many thanks for the info The Edge, every little helps!

The numbers ordered from Bofors (see Edge's first reference)
1935 Aug 8 Army field : mentioned above
1936 Feb 20 Army field (Belgian Congo?) - interesting, I need to follow up on forces in the Belgian Congo
1939 106 Army field: this isn't too far from the 94 guns suggested by Niehorster's OOB. The discrepancy in numbers could be the result of
a) not all the order being delivered by May 1940
and/or
b) The OOB includes only details for field units so any guns held in eg training, technical or experimental schools or units would not be included.

[The Edge]

The discrepancy in numbers could be the result of
a) not all the order being delivered by May 1940
and/or
b) The OOB includes only details for field units so any guns held in eg training, technical or experimental schools or units would not be included.

and/or
c) The rest might be delivered to Navy / Air Force.
(For example, ALL Yugoslav pre-1941 Bofors guns were put on ships (Navy purchase).

Edit: Hmm... It seams that Navy was a "poor" consumer:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... lgian+Navy
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... val+gun+ID
So, my vote to option - a)

More info from Overvalwagen:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... 940+gun+ID
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... +de+Canons
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... es+75mm+AA

[daveh]

For much of the inter war years Belgium had no navy it having been abolished in 1927 for budgetary reasons. In 1939 it was reformed but mostly consisted of small patrol and converted fishing vessels. As far as i know these vessels mounted machine guns and the larger vessels, 47mm guns.

http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium/ghq_navy.html

Thanks for the link to the Overvalwagen site..I had every intention of getting back to reading it at some point...

Belgian anti-aircraft guns were part of the army, as in fact was the air force both being part of the territorial air defence command under Army GHQ

http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... _army.html and
http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... ense_.html

Divisional units only had light, as in dual maxim or 20mm Madsen guns, AA guns in a motorised AA company within a divisional weapons battalion. Numbers depended on the type of unit and whether it was an active or second reserve unit.

[daveh]

http://www.anciens19ach.be/aiech.html

indicates that the 17th, 18th and 19th Horse Artillery Regiments of the Cavalry and Divisions Corps used the
75mm GPIII. This would account for 72 such guns.

[Snotvod]

The Madsen 20mm guns you speak of, as far as i know, there was no such gun in the Belgian army in 1940.
Light AA consisted of FM 30, Maxim MG08, Maxim 08/15 and Hotchkiss guns, all in calibre 7.65mm. A number of self propelled 13.2 mm hotchkiss guns was ordered but not delivered in time to see active service.

[daveh]

Thank you for the information Snotvod.

As Niehortser [http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium/organization/belgian_div-inf.html note 2] mentions them I gave them a mention too. However I had wondered about those 20mm Madsens having failed to find any pics or other sources suggesting numbers or use.

[peter u]

Hello,

In May 1940 the Belgian army also has 10 ACG1 tanks with APX2-B guntowers (armed with a 47mm FRC anti-tank gun).
Of these 10, 8 are serviceable on 10 May 1940.
They belong to the Escadron AB/CC (Escadron d'auto's blindées du corps de cavalerie).
13 APX2-B guntowers are placed on top of a bunker along the Belgian coast as a part of the coastal defence.
These guntowers are part of 11th battery of the 1st group of 5th regiment Army-artillery.
2 APX2-B guntowers are placed on top of a bunkers in the Ambléve vally (Liege).

Cheers,
Peter

[daveh]

As part of a modernisation programme the Belgians ordered 12 Renault AMC modele 1935 Type R ACG-1 tanks (out of an initial planned order of 25).The first were delivered in June 1937 by which time the Belgians had declared neutrality and had severed the previous close links with France. On receipt of the last 3 of the initial order in January 1938, no more vehicles were ordered.

Meanwhile the Belgians had ordered 25 APX2B turrets from Ateliers de Puteaux of France to be delivered in 1936, On delivery FRC fitted the 47mm gun but could not fit the 7.65mm Hotchkiss MG without modifying the turret layout. 23 of the 25 turrets were modified, the remaining 2 were placed on concrete structures at Sougne- Remouchamps on the site of a planned, but never built, fort.

Of the 23 modified turrets, 13 were placed on concrete mounts on the Belgian coast and 10 were fitted to the tanks:

2 turrets at Oostende
1 at Mariakerke
1 at Middelkerke
1 at Lombardsijde
1 at Bredenen
1 at Den Haan
1 at Zeebrugge
1 at Blanghebergen
1 at Heist
1 at Knokke
2 positions not known

The Sougne- Remouchamps turrets were manned by 3e escadron du 1er Lanciers and were abandoned when this unit retreated.

The coastal defence turrets were manned by 11e batterie du 1er Groupe du 5e Regiment d’Artillerie d’Armee and never fired a shot being abandoned on 28 - 5-40 when the Belgian Army surrendered.

See
http://niehorster.orbat.com/021_belgium ... coast.html

Tank Turret Fortifications by Neil Short ISBN:1 86126 687 1
This includes pics and diagrams of the turrets in place.

[jopaerya]

Hello Daveh

Here a map of all the turrets at the coast , do you have some additionel information on the Belgian 9.4 cm Flak Vickers ??

Regards Jos

[daveh]

Thanks very much for the map jopaerya.

With regards to the Belgian 3.7" (94mm) Vickers AA guns a map of Belgian Army positions early May 1940 shows that these guns seem to be located thus:

At/near Sint-Pieters-Leeuw: 1 - 4 gun battery
At/near Wemmel: 1 - 4 gun battery
At/near Machelen: 1 - 4 gun battery

They were statically emplaced as far as I can determine.

There was also 2 - 40mm Bofors guns at the same location.

[jopaerya]

Thanks Daveh

For the information , we also have found French 3.7" (94mm) Vickers AA guns and now the 12 x Belgian guns .

Regards Jos

[daveh]

Glad to be of help.

I do not know what Mark of 3.7" gun the Belgians had, nor if they had any associated English AA predictor equipment

[daveh]

The types of 75mm guns by regiment

Artillery .............................type of 75mm gun
Regiment.............T.R......... GP......... GPIII....... Not specified
1........................ 24..........12..........0........... 0
2.........................0...........0 ...........0...........36
3....................... 36..........0............0...........0
4.........................0.......... 0 ...........0...........36
5.........................0...........0 ...........0...........36
6........................ 12.........12............0..........12*
7.........................0...........0 ...........0...........36
8.........................0...........0 ...........0...........36
9.........................0...........0 ...........0...........36
10......................24..........12...........0........... 0
11.......................0........... 0 ...........0...........36
12......................12.........12............0..........12*
13 to 16 inclusive are corps regiments with no 75mm guns
17.......................0...........0........... 24..........0 -
18.......................0...........0........... 24..........0
19.......................0...........0........... 24..........0
(20 had Bofors 75mm)
21.......................0........... 24.........0........... 0
22.......................24...........0.........0.............0
23.......................24...........0.........0.............0
24.......................24...........0.........0.............0
25.......................0........... 24.........0........... 0
26.......................0........... 24.........0........... 0

Totals.................. 180........ 120.......72........... 276.........=.......... 648

I think the C.R.I regiments had in theory:
31.......................16......... 8...........0...........0
32.......................16......... 8...........0...........0
33.......................16......... 8...........0...........0


Totals.................. 218........ 144.......72........... 276.........=.......... 710

218 type T.R.
216 type GP made up of 144 type GP + 72 type GP III
276 unknown types

* I have notes to indicate that these regiments had both 75mm T.R. and 75mmGP so I have allocated 1 Groupe to each type and left 1 Groupe as unspecified.

Other than the GPIII type 75mm guns shown equipping the 17th 18th and 19th artillery regiments no further details are known for the various sub types of 75mm GP guns.

I have a figure of 318 GPIII delivered to the Belgian Army before 1940. As noted above only 72 guns are specifically mentioned as being GPIIIs and it is known that GPIs and IIs were also in use.
It MAY be the case that in the brief notes I have referring to the equipment of regiments only where both type T.R.s and GP were used by a regiment that such information is given.

In other words I am assuming that the unspecified guns are probably all various GP types.

If so there were 492 type GP including 318 type GPIIIs. This does fit in with the comment that GPIIIs were the most common type.

The only figure I have for the T.R. type are the 154 still in use by the Germans in 1944 which would seem to make the 218 figure above quite a reasonable total.

Further information would as always be most welcome


with thanks to frans8800 for information on regimental histories