Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.

Skip to content

If you found the forum useful please consider supporting us. You can also support us by buying books through the AHF Bookstore.

Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Discussions on Axis awards and decorations.
Hosted by John G & William Kramer.

Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby Deutsch Boy on 17 Jan 2008 03:16

It is to my knowledge that the Soviets manufactured several EK2s and EK1s for their propaganda purposes, with the date 1939 changed to 1941 and the reverse bearing the phrase 'Für Raus und Mord' (for rape and murder). This has always caught my interest, and I would like to purchase one if it is within my finacial ablilties. I have some questions regarding these:
1. How many approximately were manufactured?
2. How were they manufactured, were they pieced together from 3 pieces like the German ones or simply crudely slapped together not unlike bad reproductions today.
3. Did they resemble the actual German Eiserne kreutz or were they grossly misshaped?
4. How much would one be worth approximately on the market today?

Are there specific ways to tell if they were made during the time period? Is there a lot of trouble with these regarding fakes?

If any of you own one I would love to see photos.

Thank you,
Theodor
Last edited by Marcus Wendel on 05 Feb 2013 21:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected the title to avoid confusion when searching
User avatar
Deutsch Boy
Member
United States
 
Posts: 384
Joined: 06 Jan 2006 02:50
Location: United States, Sometimes China

Postby Deutsch Boy on 17 Jan 2008 03:20

Here are photos from epier.com of one that the seller claims to be original. One can see on the reverse the phrase "Für Raus Und Mord".
Is this one original?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Deutsch Boy
Member
United States
 
Posts: 384
Joined: 06 Jan 2006 02:50
Location: United States, Sometimes China

Postby boldyman on 17 Jan 2008 11:10

It means Für Raub (for robbery)

boldyman
boldyman
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 15 Dec 2004 21:17
Location: Deutschland

Postby Big Fish on 18 Jan 2008 14:58

Some believe these to be pure fantasy, I am one of them. Either way, this one is a definite fake: They spelt "Raub" wrong
User avatar
Big Fish
Member
Australia
 
Posts: 102
Joined: 24 Apr 2007 12:27
Location: Australia

Postby boldyman on 19 Jan 2008 14:11

As far as I read there were around 500 EK1 and EK2 FÜR RAUB UND MORD produced 1942 in Leningrad by the Russions for Propaganda. They were 3 Piece-Construction with non-magnetic core. They were hihgly good produced. Only a few still seems to exist in Russia and some museums. I read, that Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.

boldyman
boldyman
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 109
Joined: 15 Dec 2004 21:17
Location: Deutschland

Postby William Kramer on 21 Jan 2008 10:16

Hello there,

I wouldn't touch one nor would I pursue obtaining one.

William Kramer
User avatar
William Kramer
Forum Staff
United States
 
Posts: 2659
Joined: 27 Oct 2003 04:48
Location: Illinois

Postby hankmeister on 25 Jan 2008 15:24

Much discussion on these. My opinion, which may be close to worthless, is also that they're not real. Why would they make them, when there were thousands of other more important items to be produced? And who the heck were they supposed to be for??? Dead Germans? Prisoners? Until there's some sort of hard, irrefutable evidence, I just don't see it. There's too many other better ways to spread propaganda.

best
Hank
hankmeister
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 359
Joined: 24 Oct 2003 15:35
Location: Florida

Re:

Postby LeonT on 04 Feb 2013 10:22

boldyman wrote:As far as I read there were around 500 EK1 and EK2 FÜR RAUB UND MORD produced 1942 in Leningrad by the Russions for Propaganda. They were 3 Piece-Construction with non-magnetic core. They were hihgly good produced. Only a few still seems to exist in Russia and some museums. I read, that Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.

boldyman
You can see photos of this page Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.
User avatar
LeonT
Member
Ukraine
 
Posts: 97
Joined: 31 Oct 2006 16:34
Location: Ukraine-Vinnitsa

Re: Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby Marcus Wendel on 05 Feb 2013 20:14

A better photo posted by Gregory Koepp at WAF back in 2007.

/Marcus
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Marcus Wendel
Forum Staff
Sweden
 
Posts: 29696
Joined: 08 Mar 2002 22:35
Location: Sweden

Re: Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby sobel on 09 Feb 2013 21:44

One image picked up of "The net" a while ago, if this is not fake then I don't know what is, perhaps I should go back to collecting muppet dolls. Why the hell would the Soviets at the time spend valuable resources producing such garbage, and who for?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
sobel
Financial supporter
United Kingdom
 
Posts: 720
Joined: 05 Jan 2007 19:20
Location: Britain


Return to Axis Awards

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests