Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

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Deutsch Boy
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Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby Deutsch Boy » 17 Jan 2008 03:16

It is to my knowledge that the Soviets manufactured several EK2s and EK1s for their propaganda purposes, with the date 1939 changed to 1941 and the reverse bearing the phrase 'Für Raus und Mord' (for rape and murder). This has always caught my interest, and I would like to purchase one if it is within my finacial ablilties. I have some questions regarding these:
1. How many approximately were manufactured?
2. How were they manufactured, were they pieced together from 3 pieces like the German ones or simply crudely slapped together not unlike bad reproductions today.
3. Did they resemble the actual German Eiserne kreutz or were they grossly misshaped?
4. How much would one be worth approximately on the market today?

Are there specific ways to tell if they were made during the time period? Is there a lot of trouble with these regarding fakes?

If any of you own one I would love to see photos.

Thank you,
Theodor
Last edited by Marcus Wendel on 05 Feb 2013 21:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected the title to avoid confusion when searching

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Deutsch Boy
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Postby Deutsch Boy » 17 Jan 2008 03:20

Here are photos from epier.com of one that the seller claims to be original. One can see on the reverse the phrase "Für Raus Und Mord".
Is this one original?
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boldyman
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Postby boldyman » 17 Jan 2008 11:10

It means Für Raub (for robbery)

boldyman

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Big Fish
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Postby Big Fish » 18 Jan 2008 14:58

Some believe these to be pure fantasy, I am one of them. Either way, this one is a definite fake: They spelt "Raub" wrong

boldyman
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Postby boldyman » 19 Jan 2008 14:11

As far as I read there were around 500 EK1 and EK2 FÜR RAUB UND MORD produced 1942 in Leningrad by the Russions for Propaganda. They were 3 Piece-Construction with non-magnetic core. They were hihgly good produced. Only a few still seems to exist in Russia and some museums. I read, that Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.

boldyman

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William Kramer
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Postby William Kramer » 21 Jan 2008 10:16

Hello there,

I wouldn't touch one nor would I pursue obtaining one.

William Kramer

hankmeister
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Postby hankmeister » 25 Jan 2008 15:24

Much discussion on these. My opinion, which may be close to worthless, is also that they're not real. Why would they make them, when there were thousands of other more important items to be produced? And who the heck were they supposed to be for??? Dead Germans? Prisoners? Until there's some sort of hard, irrefutable evidence, I just don't see it. There's too many other better ways to spread propaganda.

best
Hank

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LeonT
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Re:

Postby LeonT » 04 Feb 2013 10:22

boldyman wrote:As far as I read there were around 500 EK1 and EK2 FÜR RAUB UND MORD produced 1942 in Leningrad by the Russions for Propaganda. They were 3 Piece-Construction with non-magnetic core. They were hihgly good produced. Only a few still seems to exist in Russia and some museums. I read, that Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.

boldyman
You can see photos of this page Mr. Detlev Niemann mentioned in his book a price of 500 EUR.

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Marcus Wendel
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Re: Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby Marcus Wendel » 05 Feb 2013 20:14

A better photo posted by Gregory Koepp at WAF back in 2007.

/Marcus
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sobel
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Re: Iron Cross - Für Raub und Mord (For robbery and murder)

Postby sobel » 09 Feb 2013 21:44

One image picked up of "The net" a while ago, if this is not fake then I don't know what is, perhaps I should go back to collecting muppet dolls. Why the hell would the Soviets at the time spend valuable resources producing such garbage, and who for?
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