Got these today
- Dennis Redler
- In memoriam
- Posts: 923
- Joined: 08 Jan 2003, 11:32
- Location: Metairie,Louisiana USA
Re: Got these today
Got this interesting "Hate Belt" today. Made from a German brown leather belt with French 2nd Empire buckle added, it contains approx.60 German buttons and a couple cockades. The improvised (keychain ?) hook is marked DRGM. The belt itself has various numbers stamped on it.
- Dennis Redler
- In memoriam
- Posts: 923
- Joined: 08 Jan 2003, 11:32
- Location: Metairie,Louisiana USA
Re: Got these today
Nice, untouched "Hate belt"- I like the early French buckle- buttons & cockades.
Nearly all of these were made by disabled French Veterans and enterprising civilians & soldiers and "sold" to the Doughboys (and the other allies)... few were actually assembled by a particular soldier. Bannerman's sold "hate belts" they assembled from their stocks of buttons, cockades, British Cap Badges, collar discs, etc. too, in the 1920s/30s. Still fully appreciated and collectible.
Obviously the best examples have "rarer" items included.... unfortunately, these are usually removed before resale and no longer "special. Yours appear untouched.
John G.
Nearly all of these were made by disabled French Veterans and enterprising civilians & soldiers and "sold" to the Doughboys (and the other allies)... few were actually assembled by a particular soldier. Bannerman's sold "hate belts" they assembled from their stocks of buttons, cockades, British Cap Badges, collar discs, etc. too, in the 1920s/30s. Still fully appreciated and collectible.
Obviously the best examples have "rarer" items included.... unfortunately, these are usually removed before resale and no longer "special. Yours appear untouched.
John G.
- Dennis Redler
- In memoriam
- Posts: 923
- Joined: 08 Jan 2003, 11:32
- Location: Metairie,Louisiana USA
Re: Got these today
Thank you, John G.
I found it interesting that in order to make the buttons fit in the thick belt the maker had to gouge a "well" for the button shank then a "trench" for the leather thong.
There are numbers and letters stamped on the belts' obverse I've yet to figure out.
The cockade near the belts' keeper is a Württemberg Reserve Unit's cap cockade.
It's been difficult to identify the different buttons but I still have a few more sources to check.
Thanks again and best regards,
Dennis
I found it interesting that in order to make the buttons fit in the thick belt the maker had to gouge a "well" for the button shank then a "trench" for the leather thong.
There are numbers and letters stamped on the belts' obverse I've yet to figure out.
The cockade near the belts' keeper is a Württemberg Reserve Unit's cap cockade.
It's been difficult to identify the different buttons but I still have a few more sources to check.
Thanks again and best regards,
Dennis
Re: Got these today
Dennis,
The "85 - 95" markings are the size adjustment of the belt.... gouging the reverse to mount the buttons, etc. is typical for thick belts.... Nearly all buttons come in several materials, paint, and other variations.... I can only see a small portion but can help some... The plain domed buttons are usually prewar "walkingout" (Dress) buttons, the pebbled plain buttons are "general purpose" buttons (common to all the German States), The Large Crown buttons are the "earlier" Prussian National Army Service buttons, the smaller Crown buttons are the later style.... the Lion buttons are "Bayern" State buttons, The Oversized Prussian Eagle "button" is a collar device for NCOs (worn on both collars- other States also had their versions). I don't see any numbered buttons... they are "Company" unit ID shoulder strap buttons if you have any (Shanks also go differently than regular buttons- true with all button types- generally speaking.
Hope this helps alittle.
John G.
The "85 - 95" markings are the size adjustment of the belt.... gouging the reverse to mount the buttons, etc. is typical for thick belts.... Nearly all buttons come in several materials, paint, and other variations.... I can only see a small portion but can help some... The plain domed buttons are usually prewar "walkingout" (Dress) buttons, the pebbled plain buttons are "general purpose" buttons (common to all the German States), The Large Crown buttons are the "earlier" Prussian National Army Service buttons, the smaller Crown buttons are the later style.... the Lion buttons are "Bayern" State buttons, The Oversized Prussian Eagle "button" is a collar device for NCOs (worn on both collars- other States also had their versions). I don't see any numbered buttons... they are "Company" unit ID shoulder strap buttons if you have any (Shanks also go differently than regular buttons- true with all button types- generally speaking.
Hope this helps alittle.
John G.
- Dennis Redler
- In memoriam
- Posts: 923
- Joined: 08 Jan 2003, 11:32
- Location: Metairie,Louisiana USA
Re: Got these today
Thanks John,
This is a big help! By the way,
Any idea why the buttons with the rampant lion are facing different directions? Are they collar buttons too, placed so they face forward ?
No pebbled buttons and no numbered. Mostly smooth brass, smooth steel (silver color) and a mixture of various crowns with that 1 large collar eagle you talked about.
The cockade near the keeper turns out to be a Wurttemburg Reserve officer.
Thanks again.
Dennis
This is a big help! By the way,
Any idea why the buttons with the rampant lion are facing different directions? Are they collar buttons too, placed so they face forward ?
No pebbled buttons and no numbered. Mostly smooth brass, smooth steel (silver color) and a mixture of various crowns with that 1 large collar eagle you talked about.
The cockade near the keeper turns out to be a Wurttemburg Reserve officer.
Thanks again.
Dennis
Re: Got these today
Re: the Lion buttons....Possibly one is a shoulder board button and one a regular tunic button (shanks should be different direction/vertical or horizontal).... they are not collar buttons (There are Lion NCO buttons, these are not them), .... Glad to help.
John G.
John G.
- Dennis Redler
- In memoriam
- Posts: 923
- Joined: 08 Jan 2003, 11:32
- Location: Metairie,Louisiana USA
Re: Got these today
Added these to my little collection today.
1st class KVK w/swords marked 65 for the firm of Klein & Quenzer.
General Assault Badge is worn late war zinc example with missing pin and broken catch marked R.S. for Rudolf Souval.
1st class KVK w/swords marked 65 for the firm of Klein & Quenzer.
General Assault Badge is worn late war zinc example with missing pin and broken catch marked R.S. for Rudolf Souval.
- William Kramer
- Host - Militaria sections
- Posts: 2867
- Joined: 27 Oct 2003, 05:48
- Location: Illinois
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Re: Got these today
I agree the coffin pin-plate is a death sentence and this type of fake can be found here:John G. wrote:Oops.... didn't look that close at the HJ pin.... obvious "coffin plate" too!, my mistake! Show a better picture of the NSDAP eagle then for sure if they came together.
John G.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... p?t=169794
William Kramer