Blood Order: real or very,very good fake?

Discussions on Axis awards and decorations. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
valsente
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Blood Order: real or very,very good fake?

#1

Post by valsente » 09 May 2007, 12:14

Hi guys,
what do you think about this medal? Its measurements are: weight 29,29 gr, diameter 40,50 mm and edge height from 3,36 mm to 2,97. The ring is marked L/58.
Thanks
Val
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DanCz
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#2

Post by DanCz » 09 May 2007, 12:48

I believe this to be a copy made by Rudolf Souval.


Bankers
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#3

Post by Bankers » 09 May 2007, 15:28

It is a copy. Should be better detail on the lions, the statues and the eagle. Also, the rays going out from the swastika: the very top one should be at the very point of the swastika.

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John G.
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#4

Post by John G. » 09 May 2007, 16:55

DanCz & Martin are correct, it's no good, but it has fooled many a collector in the past. L/58 is Souval's postwar marking, he didn't make them durning the 3rd Reich period, it does lack the details as noted, and the only way a 2nd type would have that low a number would be as a replacement for a lost early award (did happen). Being such a rare item, you may want to keep it for display and as a "good" (better than most) copy it does have modest value, but unfortunately nothing like an original.
John G.
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ErichS
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#5

Post by ErichS » 10 May 2007, 00:16

The first patterns ran as high as about 1600.

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pzrwest
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#6

Post by pzrwest » 10 May 2007, 04:30

Who all were eligible to receive the Blood Order? Was it awarded to others that didn't participate in the putsch(spelling?)?

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ErichS
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#7

Post by ErichS » 10 May 2007, 16:30

The first pattern was awarded to those who took part in the Putsch. The second pattern went mostly to Austrians and Germans who were jailed, wounded or lost their lives in service to the NSDAP.

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John G.
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#8

Post by John G. » 10 May 2007, 17:36

According to Angolia F&F Vol. 2 (Political & Civil) Fuess delivered 20,000 of the 1st Pattern. (Were they numbered at the factory or when issued?) Of course the number actually awarded (of the 1st type) was considerably smaller, the total awarded for both types is estimated at under 6,000 (I wonder why they made a 2nd production run and what happened to the missing medals.....it's not like there are wearing copies or many known unnumbered originals (there are a few of these, supposedly) for people who needed more than one. I was thinking the 1st issue ran alittle higher numberwise, I stand corrected. Guess I should check before I run my mouth....

Worth noteing, last known award was in 1942 to Reinhard Heydrich (posthumously) and the serial number is of the award, not the members Party number.

John G.
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DanCz
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#9

Post by DanCz » 10 May 2007, 17:49

The highest number Blood Order I have seen was in the 4300 range.

I too have often wondered what happened to the remainder of the original Fuess pure silver striking - perhaps they were smelted down. The "second strike" was made from .800 silver which is much more durable and hard wearing.

I was told that unnumbered Blood Orders were those posthumously awarded - I am not altogether persuaded by this suggestion however.

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ErichS
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#10

Post by ErichS » 11 May 2007, 00:34

With probably less than 5000 awarded the BO is pretty rare considering that aprox. 22,000 GPB's were awarded.

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Hexar
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#11

Post by Hexar » 13 May 2007, 23:42

If a Blood Order medal has a serial # of 1 462, is that medal 1462 or is the 1 for "series one", medal 462? Or, is the space between the 1 and 4 just a mistake?

I'm no expert, but I've been studying some good close-ups of the Blood Order medals quite a bit. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I immediately thought the medal shown above was a reproduction by the shape of the letter "N" in Nov. on the obverse side. The authentic medals have what seems to be a shorter or more squat, almost square look to it. Thanks, Hexar

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Big Fish
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#12

Post by Big Fish » 14 May 2007, 07:04

I am no expert either but i believe that they were just numbered in the order they were made. When they started to produce the 2nd lot they just picked up where they left off with the numbers. I could be wrong though

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DanCz
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#13

Post by DanCz » 14 May 2007, 11:23

The numbering is merely the issue number of the medal - - the the first 1500 or so medals went to the 1923 Putchists and are therefore in my opinion the most desireable awards - - - those bearing later numbers were awarded for example to those jailed in the service of the NSDAP.

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William Kramer
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#14

Post by William Kramer » 14 May 2007, 21:22

Hello,

The one posted isn't even close and it should be known that the LDO code should not be on the suspension ring.

Here is a first and second pattern for sale at the moment:

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1508

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=1627

William Kramer

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Hexar
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#15

Post by Hexar » 14 May 2007, 22:20

Thanks for those two pics, allIknew. If you look at the pic of the second type, you will see the square looking "N" in the word Nov on the obverse that I mentioned above. The first type doesn't have this style of N, however :? . Still learning, Hexar

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