Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

Discussions on Axis awards and decorations. Hosted by John G & William Kramer.
Post Reply
User avatar
Deutsch-Bär
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 29 Aug 2016, 03:27
Location: Hyperborea

Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#1

Post by Deutsch-Bär » 25 Sep 2016, 05:14

Hello, first off I'd like to say I know two of these items that I'm going to show aren't awards but if you happen to know something about them, please feel free to help me authenticate and to identify what they are! (Sorry for all the pictures being sideways.. I took them vertically.)

Here, I have an Iron Cross. I assume it's suppose to be an Iron Cross First Class with a Silver Oak Leaf. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and help me authenticate this. I know the market is plagued with a bunch of fake German WW2 items, but either way I still would enjoy having this item even if it turned out to be fake.
Image
Image
Image
Image

I also have this ribbon bar that I need help authenticating. I'm well aware that the first one is a WW1 Iron Cross Second Class ribbon, the second one is some kind of Austrian ribbon (please help me identify this one if you can), the third one is the Hindenburg Cross with Swords (or the 'The Honour Cross of the World War'), apparently the forth one is the 25 Years State Service ribbon (can someone explain this ribbon to me), and I think the last one is an Austrian WW1 ribbon but I could be wrong so correct me if so.
Image
Image

Now, as I said before, I know this isn't an award but this is still an interesting piece that I'd love to be authenticated. This is an SS armband that still has threads from a brown shirt on it here and there (I can only assume the fella whom possibly wore it sewed it into his uniform). But to be quite frank, I thought the black around the armband meant it was specifically an Allgemeine-SS armband but please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, it appears to be an early version SS armband due to the threading of the actual Hakenkreuz itself. Also, the bottom of it is cut, possibly due to the bottom also being sewn onto the shirt as well.
Image
Image
(Makers little seal of approval or whatever it's called.. It's been a long day.)

Lastly, I have this really odd shoulder board. Could someone possibly tell me if it's authentic, the rank of the person, or the specific job of the person who would've worn this? I was told this was for the "fire police", although I looked at the Wehrmacht's Waffenfarbe and I couldn't find a single thing on it.
Image
Image


Thank you for taking the time to view my post! :milwink:
~Rus

User avatar
Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
Member
Posts: 5761
Joined: 27 Jul 2004, 02:30
Location: Cleveland ,tennessee

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#2

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 25 Sep 2016, 05:19

Hm, IMO the SS armband looks like it has been *artificially aged* The white rondel is way over kill antiqued


User avatar
stewy
Member
Posts: 92
Joined: 24 Jan 2009, 20:19
Location: Norfolk,England

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#3

Post by stewy » 25 Sep 2016, 17:55

The EK/KC with O/L is a fake IMO, sorry. Stewy

User avatar
Deutsch-Bär
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 29 Aug 2016, 03:27
Location: Hyperborea

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#4

Post by Deutsch-Bär » 26 Sep 2016, 00:51

stewy wrote:The EK/KC with O/L is a fake IMO, sorry. Stewy
I seriously only assumed as much, I understand that there are billions upon billions of fakes out there. But you live and you learn, the only sad part was the guy was selling everything "authentic". I hear that the centers of them are suppose to be magnetic so next time it looks like I'll be taking a magnet to the gun show! I'm only a tad disappointed because I was hoping that I got lucky, thanks for authenticating it for me though! Can you happen to tell me if it's an EK 1, EK 2, or KC? I think it's an EK 1 because I've never seen any EK 2's with O/L's or Swords.
~Rus

User avatar
John G.
Host - Militaria sections
Posts: 5775
Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 19:56
Location: USA

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#5

Post by John G. » 26 Sep 2016, 14:09

The "Knights Cross" is a poor quality fake... Oak leaves also (No value). The ribbon bar is good... 1914 Iron Cross 2nd cl.; Austro/Hungarian Gold Bravery medal; 1914-18 Honor Cross w/swords; 25 Yr. Faithful Service Cross; and an Austrian WW 1 commemorative medal w/swords ribbons ($35./65. value). The SS Armband looks o.k. to me but is badly damaged.... "new collector only" condition. Still worth alittle ($50.00 or so)...the Shoulder board is for a Reichsbahn low level official ($15./20.).

A 1st Cl. Iron Cross is a pin back, the ring on a 2nd cl. goes across the top of the frame, not "flat"... so that one is supposed to be a Knights Cross but doesn't even come close (not to mention a Knights Cross w/oak leaves would be in the $12,000./24,000.00 range)...
John G.

User avatar
Deutsch-Bär
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 29 Aug 2016, 03:27
Location: Hyperborea

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#6

Post by Deutsch-Bär » 27 Sep 2016, 01:25

John G. wrote:The "Knights Cross" is a poor quality fake... Oak leaves also (No value). The ribbon bar is good... 1914 Iron Cross 2nd cl.; Austro/Hungarian Gold Bravery medal; 1914-18 Honor Cross w/swords; 25 Yr. Faithful Service Cross; and an Austrian WW 1 commemorative medal w/swords ribbons ($35./65. value). The SS Armband looks o.k. to me but is badly damaged.... "new collector only" condition. Still worth alittle ($50.00 or so)...the Shoulder board is for a Reichsbahn low level official ($15./20.).

A 1st Cl. Iron Cross is a pin back, the ring on a 2nd cl. goes across the top of the frame, not "flat"... so that one is supposed to be a Knights Cross but doesn't even come close (not to mention a Knights Cross w/oak leaves would be in the $12,000./24,000.00 range)...
John G.
Thank you so much, John, I really appreciate everything that you told me! Out of curiosity I have a few questions for you, and I hope you don't mind them..


How can I tell the difference between a fake and an original Knights Cross, EK 1, EK 2?
- Also how much would an original Knights Cross, EK 1, EK 2 cost? (Assuming they're in pretty decent condition and not total trash.)

I see people selling SS Armbands at gun shows a lot but they also happen to be insanely expensive (or to me at least), they see them from roughly 350-550 dollars or perhaps a non SS Armband for 200-300 or so.. Are these prices ridiculous or are they actually decent prices and what price would you recommend buying them for?
- Also, do you know how I could perhaps spot a fake from an original?

Lastly, I would've assumed the ribbon bar would've been worth a little more but I paid roughly 35 dollars for it. Are there also any tell-tale signs to figuring out of a ribbon bar is authentic or not?



Once again, I really do appreciate all your help, John.
~Rus

User avatar
John G.
Host - Militaria sections
Posts: 5775
Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 19:56
Location: USA

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#7

Post by John G. » 27 Sep 2016, 21:24

It's impossible to tell a layman how to spot reproductions of any kind... there are too many high quality reproductions out there. You need to know what the difference is between the classes of awards and what originals look like. There are websites and forums that (once a member) go into great detail on both originals and fakes..... as well as reference books (For Fuhrer & Fatherland Vol. 1 & 2 by Angolia and Niemann's Catalog & Price Guide Germany 1871-1945 are recommended). Niemann's has front & back photos of nearly everything in most variations...

Values of Iron Cross 1939 2nd cl. would be $75./$150.00; 1st Cl. Iron Cross $200./$350.00; Knights Cross $10,000./$20,000.00; Oak Leaves (by themselves) $8,000./20,000.00; Oak leaves w/swords $12,000./$25,000.00; O/L w/swds & Diamonds $65,000./95,000.00.

A nice SS armband can certainly go for $500.00 or even more, but can still be bought for around half that if you're patient.... a plain swastika armband should only be $120.00/$150.00 retail for a wool one, half that for a cotton version, alittle more for a "bevo" /high quality cotton version... the RZM tag adds $20.$25. in most cases. Only buy "nice" clean examples.. no major damage/mothing/soiling.

Ribbon bars are also too complicated for any easy way to spot reproductions... a black light will eliminate some fakes but generally avoid larger bars with multi-NSDAP Awards, SS Runes, Olympic medals, Ital./German Afrika medal ribbons and the like.... too good to be true is usually a big red flag.

We'll be glad to assist here... but we can't do the real ground work for you. If you're interested in this stuff, you need to make the necessary effort yourself to learn.... but it will be painful.
John G.

User avatar
Deutsch-Bär
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 29 Aug 2016, 03:27
Location: Hyperborea

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#8

Post by Deutsch-Bär » 29 Sep 2016, 23:30

John G. wrote:It's impossible to tell a layman how to spot reproductions of any kind... there are too many high quality reproductions out there. You need to know what the difference is between the classes of awards and what originals look like. There are websites and forums that (once a member) go into great detail on both originals and fakes..... as well as reference books (For Fuhrer & Fatherland Vol. 1 & 2 by Angolia and Niemann's Catalog & Price Guide Germany 1871-1945 are recommended). Niemann's has front & back photos of nearly everything in most variations...

Values of Iron Cross 1939 2nd cl. would be $75./$150.00; 1st Cl. Iron Cross $200./$350.00; Knights Cross $10,000./$20,000.00; Oak Leaves (by themselves) $8,000./20,000.00; Oak leaves w/swords $12,000./$25,000.00; O/L w/swds & Diamonds $65,000./95,000.00.

A nice SS armband can certainly go for $500.00 or even more, but can still be bought for around half that if you're patient.... a plain swastika armband should only be $120.00/$150.00 retail for a wool one, half that for a cotton version, alittle more for a "bevo" /high quality cotton version... the RZM tag adds $20.$25. in most cases. Only buy "nice" clean examples.. no major damage/mothing/soiling.

Ribbon bars are also too complicated for any easy way to spot reproductions... a black light will eliminate some fakes but generally avoid larger bars with multi-NSDAP Awards, SS Runes, Olympic medals, Ital./German Afrika medal ribbons and the like.... too good to be true is usually a big red flag.

We'll be glad to assist here... but we can't do the real ground work for you. If you're interested in this stuff, you need to make the necessary effort yourself to learn.... but it will be painful.
John G.
Your help has never failed to please, John, as I said before I really do appreciate it. I've been trying to learn all of this stuff myself and I've been taking pictures of actual authentic items that I've come across to use as reference. My last and final question for you is, what exactly would a black light do and why would it be useful for spotting fakes? With all that being said, thank you for being a helpful resource!
~Rus

User avatar
John G.
Host - Militaria sections
Posts: 5775
Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 19:56
Location: USA

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#9

Post by John G. » 03 Oct 2016, 13:44

A black light will make any nylon/polyester glow bright as a neon lite, and will eliminate some reproductions.... BUT NOT ALL. It's a tool, It will also glow if an item has been laundered using modern detergents.
John G.

User avatar
William Kramer
Host - Militaria sections
Posts: 2867
Joined: 27 Oct 2003, 05:48
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Need Help Authenticating Axis Awards & Etc.

#10

Post by William Kramer » 15 Oct 2016, 20:16

I actually thought the SS armband may stand a chance.

William Kramer

Post Reply

Return to “Axis Awards”