Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

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richcarrick
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Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#1

Post by richcarrick » 19 Oct 2016, 14:33

Hi guys

I have recently taken a complete gamble on a job lot of Third Reich militaria / medals, marked as 'attributed to Max Schmeling' (ie the German Heavyweight boxing champion of the World 1930-32). The lot was actually incorrectly attributed to Max 'Schnelling', but that's beside the point.

I am wondering as to whether I have bought worthless tat, or genuine items. I think the only thing 'attributed' to Schmeling could be his blazer badge. It's plausible as he only died 10 years ago. Everything else could have been picked up any time and bundled together into a job lot, and I could not ascertain the provenance from the auctioneers. I am aware that Schmeling was forced to join the armed forces, and served in the Fallschirmjager, but again the inclusion of the paratrooper badge could just be coincidence.

Items are as follows:

1936 Olympic Games judges / film department pin badges x 3.

Kampfrichter and Startrichter badges have Ges.Gesch. stamped on back, plus makers mark (looks like 'BC' in a diamond). The eagle on the Kampfrichter badge appears to have been glued on at some stage in the recent past. Filmabteilung badge has Rob.Nefp. Berlin W57 stamps to rear. No other marks to any of the badges.

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(notice the crude gluing on of the eagle)

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'Max Schmeling's Olympic Blazer Badge'. Has three eyelet hooks to rear, sewn in.

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Wound badge (in black?). Has no makers marks. A tiny mark on the back of the pin - could be a makers mark? Very hard to see or tell.

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Blood Order marked no.463 / 800 for silver content. This one I think is definitely fake. I did a little research and medal no. 463 was presented to someone called Hartmann (see image). I don't think there's any way it can be real. Also, I noted the crudity of the details on the Feldherrnhalle as compared to images of 'real' medals I found on the net, and on this forum. But I could be wrong!

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Paratrooper's badge by G.H. Osang of Dresden. Makers mark to rear. No other marks.

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Service Medal with Swords. No makers marks or any other marks


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UMF Ruhla with eagle and swastika on back, second hand missing, with ribboned fob. Someone with greater knowledge of watches might be able to help. I know that the UMF factory wasn't always in Russian hands, so this could be a genuine pre-war watch. The fob at least looks real enough, and is marked 10.10.1920 / 10.4.1938 - Gau Karnten Wirdanken Unserem Fuhrer. The watch works (ticks) albeit intermittently.

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apologies for the pics, they are the best I can do at the moment with my iphone

Any help a to the authenticity (or otherwise) of these items greatly appreciated!
Rich

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John G.
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Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#2

Post by John G. » 19 Oct 2016, 22:05

Rich,
Alittle good news, but mostly bad I'm afraid.

All of the Olympic Enamel badges are well known fakes... all have the "kiss of death" coffee backer plates for the pin and are not German quality detail.

The Blazer patch also appears to be a "modern" reproduction, but made in the correct style... probably would glow under black-light if fake, the "hooks" appear to be "modern ones" too.

The Wound Badge is a silver grade... latewar but appears original from the photo.

The Blood Order is definitely a fake... bad ribbon and poor detail overall.

the LW Para. badge is a fake.... wrong hinge, catch, revits for an OSANG.

the Eagle Order Medal of Merit w/swords is also no good... Swords should be finished on both sides, detail is decent but not as detailed as it should be IMO, and the ribbon is definitely modern.

The Watch fab is real, but the Watch is probably added... (you didn't photograph the eagle/swastika back) but that's usually a bad sign... lots of old watches, plates, tableware, etc. is being embellished with eagles & swastikas, SS Runes, etc. to screw the unknowing.

Best not to take chances on this stuff without "vetting" it here or somewhere with people willing to help. The Max Schmeling story should have raised many red flags to me .... hope you didn't spend a lot of money.
John G. Co-moderator
Mainemilitaria since 1958.


richcarrick
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Posts: 108
Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 18:35

Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#3

Post by richcarrick » 19 Oct 2016, 23:37

many thanks for the detailed reply...

yeah it was a total gamble for me and took me well outside my comfort zone... I only took a gamble as the auctioneer had mislabeled the 'Schmeling' name and I thought other dealers might have missed it... I was sure the blood order at least was fake. A real low numbered one would be worth thousands... shame about everything else though.

what kind of ballpark value does this lot have please? I'd really like to offload it now!

Rich

Ian Hulley
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Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#4

Post by Ian Hulley » 20 Oct 2016, 00:04

I agree with John, the Eagle Order Merit medal should also be maker-marked.

The repros are almost worthless ... I ALWAYS advise against buying them but there are people actively collecting this crap 'because they can't afford the real thing' ... all they are doing is throwing away their money.

Sadly a silver wound badge is very common and extremely cheap.

Ian

richcarrick
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Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 18:35

Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#5

Post by richcarrick » 20 Oct 2016, 00:13

:-(

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#6

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 21 Oct 2016, 01:06

Would be interested in the name /venue of this *auction house* Not a Proxibid or Live Auctioneer based house I hope?Bahahhaha
Now, lets cut to the quick!!!
The AUCTION HOUSE **MIS LABELLING/MISS SPELLING THE NAME WAS NO MISTAKE!! GET MY DRIFT.By misspelling the Schmeling, they have covered their assess. Who you thought this group was owned by is all on you, as all they did was post a name. you took it upon yourself to think you was getting a bargain, IMO

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Location: Cleveland ,tennessee

Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#7

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 21 Oct 2016, 01:11

See, they puy in the catalog...Schnelling, not Schmeling, now, they are prying on some clueless rube thinking the mistaken spelling was a mistake on their part,this is a common tactic to sell crap.
You got greedy thining you were puilling one over, but sorry you got hosed!!!!bahahahahhaa..

Ian Hulley
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Re: Real or Fake? Medals etc 'Attributed to Max Schmeling'

#8

Post by Ian Hulley » 21 Oct 2016, 15:24

richcarrick wrote: 1936 Olympic Games judges / film department pin badges x 3.

Kampfrichter and Startrichter badges have Ges.Gesch. stamped on back, plus makers mark (looks like 'BC' in a diamond). The eagle on the Kampfrichter badge appears to have been glued on at some stage in the recent past. Filmabteilung badge has Rob.Nefp. Berlin W57 stamps to rear. No other marks to any of the badges.
Rich, if you notice the pins on the reverse of the 'Olympic' badges all have the same coffin-shaped base ... this is ALWAYS a dead give-away of a modern fake. Real pin bases were round or oval but NEVER coffin-shaped.

Ian.

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