Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

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frcoplan
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Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#1

Post by frcoplan » 10 Apr 2007, 09:41

I published this in Beliburg Masacre thread but as it is a wider subject i am repostoing it here. There were massive executions post WW II in Yugoslavia, many of them taking place in Slovenia, which was closest to Austrian border. People who were captured in Yugoslavia were killed, as well as people who were returned by the British from Austria. Also treatment of civiliand and military prisoners is questionable, as there are reports of looting. Of course this is a painfull chapter for all sides which can easily spark emotional responses, but i am iterested if someone can share his/hers views or perheaps sources on this:

Just to start, what was published under Beliburg masacre:

It must be emphasised that British played a huge role in this. Slovenes and Croats came under their protection but they were delivered back to Yugoslavia, although there were little doubts what is going to happen to them. Deportations continued also after survivors came back and told what is going on. In the end workers from british humanitarian organisations which were in contact with slovenes and a few not in the box thinking officers managed to stop deportation literally in the last moments before the slovene civilians would be returned as well, further increasing the death toll. Unfortuantely it was too late for many Croats, Slovenes etc.

I will give a few quotes from the book above. I must warn you this is a translation from slovene editon of the book so original english text might be slightly diffrent:

This is what Tony Crosland from Royal Welch Fusiliers wrote:

"In the British army, the problem fo antiTito Croats and Slovenes is cousing almost a civil war. At the moment we have around 50 000 of them. When we accepted their surrender, it must have been assumed we are not going to return them. Then it was agreed on higher levels that they must be returned to Tito.
Unarmed mass was taken on trains and they were told they are going to Italy: they went on them in good mood and were accompanied by british army to the entrance to the tunnel on the border. There the guards left them and the train went into the tunnel. Among the officers there is rebellion and irritation over fraud and dishonesty. It is the most disgusting and coldblooded act in a war, that i ever took part in..."

Also from Nicolson:

"Welch Guards which had to force people on train were on the edge of mutiny. They were asking officers if this is what they were fighting for.When one company of Welch Guards was replaced by the other, which had to do it for just one day, the sergant said: I am happy we do not have to do this again, as i would not be able to be responsible for their actions if they were given the order, to do it again. They were changing troops. It was really bad. Indignation was extreme."

However it must also ne noticed that not all british soldiers were as the ones above. There was also a lot of taking advantage of situation, looting civilians and POWs.

One more quote to better picture, what was actually going on:

..."Most of the others didn't have luck. They did not have any reason, not to belive claims of british that they are being moved to Italy. Slovenes did not know what was happening with Cosacks and at the determined time they were peacefully reporting for loading into british military trucks. They were taken on train stations MAria Elend and Podrosica west of Pliberk and further towards east. Pernisek described a cheerfull mood at leaving in his diary:

Tuesdey 29th May 1945. Beautifull sunny day. Boys from 3rd regiment are leaving. They are happy and their song can be heard along the camp. English load the last truck. Slowly the column move. Wild roar of the engines does not oversound the merry song and cheering of domobranci. A sea of whit handkerchiefs is waving the boys goodbye. Women and girls are crying. They follow the column with their eyes until it disappear behind the Zakamen. From the distance a sounds of song and accordion can be heard.

The merry mood changed in a moment when they were forcedly stocked into wagons. To Nicolson who witnessed this deportations and knew what was going on, it seemed like deportations of prisoners into german concentration camp:

When the cattle wagons are full, our guardsmen pulled the door together and locked them with a lock. They also locked the passanger wagons. When all was secure, they moved away, and their place was taken by Tito partisans, which were hidding in the bushes and in the buildings. Wagons were old and through slots they (domobranci) could see, what was going on. They started banging on the walls of wagons, screaming curses, but not on partiosans, but us, who deceived them and send at least the men into ceratin death. This scene was going on day after day, twice a day. This is the most horrible expirience of my life.

The survivor remember that british soldiers were shouting on them, pointing rifles and shooting now and then. British brought tanks and were searching backpacks and pockest of refugees, taking cameras, knifes, ink pens and other valuables..."


I appologize Black Legion for moving a bit from your theme, but it is connected happening and perheaps a good picture on what was going on.

frcoplan

All above from book:

Authors: John Corsellis and Marcus Ferrar

Title: SLOVENIA 1945 Memories of Death and Survival after World War II

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#2

Post by frcoplan » 10 Apr 2007, 09:46

Perheaps just one more account from Slovene domobranec Lekan:

"I was so uppset by the allies taking our equipment, i was crying and squeezing my teeth. So hard i broke off a tooth. Schmajser, which i took from the German, i have completly taken it appart and threw parts into Englismen by the road. I was furios, shocked, disappointed. I was ready to die. People, for which we risked our lives to save their pilots, were disarming us and treated us like we were some kind of germans-i could not swallow that, specially as they were stealing watches and wedding rings."

Same source as above.

frcoplan


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#3

Post by frcoplan » 10 Apr 2007, 11:13

Perheaps i should specify my questions a bit more:

How much is the public in UK aware of the events that were taking place at the end of the WW II and the role of the british army in them.

How is it viewed by historians and others in UK.

I came across claims that officialy were not aware that they were going to be killed, however it seemd that British personel on location had a good idea of what is going to happen, so it is a bit doubtfull that higher command would not have had an idea. Plus there were survivors reporting what was happening, but still the deportations were taking place.

How is the active role of the british army viewed. After all they were not just giving them back, they were tacking active part, organizing transports and providing means for them, lying to people and cooperating with partisans, making themselfs an active part of the killing chain.

frcoplan

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#4

Post by frcoplan » 12 Apr 2007, 10:19

Answer for Mr. David Thompson:

The role and awarness of British what is going to happen to refugees diffrent military formations if they are returned to Yugoslavia unfortunately can not be uncovered in full, becouse the BRitish archives concerning this happening are still not open. So all we can use is personal accounts opinipons etc.

I would say that there was little doubt what is going to happen with political oposition if you send it to totalitarian communist regime. Not to mention the two sides were involved in bloody civil war before that. Perheaps it would be better to say sides, as diffrent formations in Yugoslavia were not linked together.

The british also had reports from their agents on the field.

And it seems that the lower rank on the field had no doubt what is going to happen to people which they were returning.

There is also a conspiracy of lying to people they are going to Italy. But not only to Slovenes, but also members of allied and british army, so clearly there was a full awarnes that sending those people back would not only couse problems with them, but also their own army. In fact there is a case described in this book, were an officer clearly ignored the order to send people back.

I will give a few more quotes from the book:

1st quote:

"...Many British were truly ashamed. Nigel Nicholson wrote 45 years later....Those were three shamefull weeks. This was one of the most shamefull operations that British soldiers had to do it under order... This brutal act was done with full awarness of possible consequence. Compassion was oppressed. A huge betrayal was organized to satisfy current needs (but what?) and calm down Stalin and Tito...

Nicolson also said this opinion was widespread in officers cantine and also among lower ranks"

The following quote shall be about major Barre a canadian who was at first convincing slovenes the deportations into Yugoslavia are not taking place, but later found out he was lied to by the British. He was passed an order by lieutenant Hames that on next day 1st of June, 2700 slovene civilian refugees must be prepeared for transport from the camp.

2nd quote:

"I did not accept this as for me this was not an order from my superior. I want to emphasise: i did not fulfill this order. I completly ignored it (...) i was horribly upset. It was a rather dificult conversation"

NExt quote shall be about major Johnson, to which major Barre and dr. Mersol went afterwards. Major Barre wanted the Birtish to protect the slovene refugees as it was their duty after taking them under their protection. After about half an hour, to a surpise of dr. Mersol, he was informed that a decision was made that no one is going to be returned unless he or she wishes so. When doctor Mersol started to thank major Johnson, explaining that situation in Yugoslavia is horrible and not democratic, major Johnson interrupted him and said:

"Don't teach me on conditions in Yugoslavia. I know them pretty well, thats why i gave the order as i told you"

Major Johnson was a communication officer in Titos headquaters in Yugoslavia.

It must be explained here why there was so much trust in the british by slovenes. Those people were extremely pro western and they represented all other, we copuld say democratic forces from Slovenia. There was a lot of intelectuals among them and other important people which would be killed if captured by communists. The west and British in speciall were seen as some kind of role model to them through the war. Of course the dissapointment and shock was so much higher after those events. A quote from Pernisek:

"We were horribly disapointed by the English. We could not even imagine such villainy and hypocritical betrayal. Good young mr. Corsellis, who deals with us admitts that English who are with us are ashamed of this act. There is nothing else for us to do, but to lock the pain into our hearts and not curse. We are refugees given on mercy and disgrace of English"

As i said before my translations can be diffrent from English original, as i am translating this from slovene version.

frcoplan

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#5

Post by SloveneLiberal » 07 May 2020, 20:08

It is likely that Slovene home guard soldiers or so called 'domobranci' were sent back by the British to
Yugoslavia because such decision was made between British minister Harold Macmillan and general Charles
Keightley on 13.5. 1945 in Celovec ( Klagenfurt ). Keightley reported to Macmillan that representative of
Yugoslav forces in Koroška ( Austria ) Boško Šiljegović was protesting because the British allowed anti-partisan
forces from Yugoslavia to surrender to them. The British on the other hand wanted Yugoslav army to move
out of Koroška or Austria. Yugoslav forces were counting on Soviet support for their territorial claims against
Austria. So in this situation Macmillan and Keightley made a decision to return white Russians to Red army
and Yugoslav anti-partisans to Yugoslav army. They thought they will have less problems if doing so and also
that British POWs which were before in German hands will be returned without problems back to them from the Red army.
At Yalta Stalin obtained allied agreement to the repatriation of every Soviet citizen who had been under German control during WW2, because the allied leaders feared that the Soviets either might delay or refuse repatriation of the Allied POWs whom the Red Army had liberated from Nazi POW camps.

But Macmillan and Keightley knew that they do not have USA consent for such decision. Soon after the meeting in Celovec Keightley was informed that 200.000 Croats ( many of them ustasha ) and 300.000 Germans are coming to Koroška. That would mean huge logistical problem. Under the suggestion of Macmillan allied command in Caserta decided on 14.5.1945 that Yugoslavs which served under Germans should be disarmed and surrendered to Yugoslav army under Tito. It is quite clear that this was an answer on reports about 200.000 Croats coming to Koroška. So this in fact likely did not apply to Slovene home guard units ( renamed in Slovene national army which swore to king Peter II in the last days of WW2 ) which were already disarmed and in Vetrinje under the British control together with some Serbs. We can see this also from the fact that British general Brian Robertson showed this command to USA general Alexander Kirk in the form which was talking about returning Yugoslav citizens with the exception of chetniks as Kirk reported from Caserta to Washington. The term chetniks was used many times for all non-Croats in those days. Kirk did not agree even with that. So Robertson sent his command forward in the form which was not talking any more about the exception of chetniks. Based on Robertson command brigadier Low ordered that all Yugoslavs should be returned to the forces under Tito's control and that they should not be informed about the goal of their relocation.

Mass and extrajudicial killings were commited mostly by special forces of Yugoslav army composed of loyal and trusted communists. For example one such unit composed of 90 members killed around 30.000 people in Kočevski Rog according to testimony of former communist Simo Dubajić.

Slovensko domobranstvo, written by dr. Boris Mlakar, published in 2003, Ljubljana, pages 501-503.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#6

Post by SloveneLiberal » 16 Jun 2020, 14:34

That the issue of how Yugoslav army would react in Koroška specially if the British would accept the surrender of 200.000 soldiers of ustasha led NDH was very important concerning sending back anti-partisan forces in Yugoslavia we can see also from the fact that Primorski domobranci ( home guard units from Primorska ) were not sent back, because they surrendered to the allies in Italy together with some Serbs around 10.000 of them.

In December 1944, Jevđević's 3,000 remaining fighters joined Đujić's Chetniks, Dimitrije Ljotić's Serbian Volunteer Corps, and the remnants of Milan Nedić's Serbian Shock Corps, which were under the command of SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS (SS General) Odilo Globocnik, the Higher SS and Police Leader of the Adriatic Littoral. Despite this, they attempted to contact the western Allies in Italy in an effort to secure foreign aid for a proposed anti-communist offensive to restore royalist Yugoslavia. They were all blessed by Serbian Orthodox bishop Nikolaj Velimirović upon his arrival in Slovenia. On 11 April 1945, a detachment of Jevđević's Chetniks, along with three regiments of the Serbian Volunteer Corps, marched into south-western Croatia with the aim of linking up with the Montenegrin Volunteer Corps of Pavle Đurišić, which was marching across Bosnia in an attempt to reach Slovenia. The relief effort came too late, because the Montenegrin Volunteer Corps had already been defeated by NDH forces at the Battle of Lijevče Field near Banja Luka, after which Đurišić was captured and killed. The relief force then marched north to Slovenia, where it fought the Partisans before retreating into Austria. These Chetniks were subsequently captured by the Allies and repatriated to Yugoslavia, where they were summarily executed by the Partisans. Jevđević remained highly influential among the Chetniks until the end of the war.

In the spring of 1945, Jevđević fled to Italy, where he was arrested by Allied forces and detained at a camp in Grottaglie. An estimated 10,000 Chetniks reportedly followed him and Đujić into the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dobroslav ... 1evi%C4%87

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#7

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Jun 2020, 05:35

It should be remembered that they were technically traitors from an Allied country who had served in uniform for the enemy. Some of the Croats had committed extreme atrocities themselves.

As citizens of an Allied country, the default position was that they would normally be sent home to face any justice due. They may have hoped to escape to the West, but they had no good reason to expect to be accepted.

That said, the British rid themselves of the problem with indecent haste, and ignored the first evidence that they were being massacred.

Sid.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#8

Post by steve248 » 17 Jun 2020, 16:59

They were probably covered by the Yalta Agreement meaning all East and South-East Europeans had to be handed back.
This is why Nikolai Tolstoy had a libel (?) case against one of the men concerned (can't remember his name) in handing back these people. Tolstoy did not win.
But like all mass movements of people, there were always exceptions. British Intelligence wanted some of them, US agencies wanted some of them (Soobzokov springs to mind).

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#9

Post by Sid Guttridge » 17 Jun 2020, 18:24

Hi steve248,

Tolstoy is a questionable character who was lucky to escape another law suit

I knew an elderly lady who spent 20 years in French archives preparing a highly original book about the Napoleonic wars from entirely primary sources. By her account, after her own book was published, Tolstoy pirated her work for a book of his own. It only didn't go to court because she died.

Cheers,

Sid

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#10

Post by SloveneLiberal » 17 Jun 2020, 20:14

Soviet citizens were returned because of Yalta agreement. As i mentioned USA and UK were afraid for their citizens captured by USSR. I add here some more information about this.

It is clear that Washington was aware that the Soviets were holding American citizens at the time of the Yalta Conference. The report states that "there is no question that many bomber crews survived after parachuting or crash landing in territory controlled by the Soviets forces." However, it adds that the Soviets refused to provide any information concerning many of the American POWs from these aircrews who they
considered to be Soviet citizens because of their East European background (i.e., U.S.
citizens of Rumanian, Hungarian or other East European descent).

....

In November 1992, President Yeltsin's emissary to the Senate Select Committee testified that by directive of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, an undetermined number of American POWs liberated by Soviet forces were "summarily executed" while others were forced to renounce
their citizenship.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36701975.pdf ( page 39 )

Also here pages 13/14

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2149110?re ... b_contents

However concerning Yugoslav citizens they were not returned because of Yalta, they were not part of Yalta agreement but because the British were worried about the reaction of Yugoslav army in Koroška where Yugoslavia had also territorial claims if they would accept the surrender of anti-partisan forces which collaborated with Germans. And the arrival of large number of Croats from the ustasha led NDH was kind of a turning point in this process.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#11

Post by steve248 » 17 Jun 2020, 21:34

I do not think the scenario you paint about and US prisoners in the USSR is entirely accurate.
As the Soviet Army passed through Poland they came across escaped POWs living in Poland and liberated a number of POW camps.
The British and American prisoners were evacuated by railway train to Odessa where the British had ships to bring them back to the UK.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#12

Post by SloveneLiberal » 17 Jun 2020, 21:54

Steve248 in the JSTOR article you have the evolution of this issue. For example general John Deane head of USA military mission in Moscow reported in June 1944 that he had an impression that the Russians or Soviets made no preparations for the care and repatriation of liberated Americans. He then asked ambassador Harriman for help but Molotov did not reply until November 1944 when he agreed ''in principle''. But in practice the matter was not solved until Yalta.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#13

Post by history1 » 19 Jun 2020, 15:40

Sid Guttridge wrote:
17 Jun 2020, 05:35
It should be remembered that they were technically traitors from an Allied country who had served in uniform for the enemy. Some of the Croats had committed extreme atrocities themselves.
[...]
The Independent State of Croatia an ally of the USA, British, etc.? Don´t make me laugh, please!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independe ... of_Croatia
When they were your allies you´re co-responsible for the KL Jasenovac too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac ... ation_camp

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#14

Post by history1 » 19 Jun 2020, 16:01

The Kočevski Rog massacre was a series of massacres near Kočevski Rog in late May 1945 in which thousands of members of the Nazi Germany–allied Slovene Home Guard and their families were murdered without formal charges or trial by special units of the Yugoslav Partisans; other victims were Croat, Serb and Montenegrin collaborationists, Italian and German troops
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C4%8De ... g_massacre
The Repatriation of Cossacks occurred when Cossacks, ethnic Russians and Ukrainians who were against the Soviet Union were handed over by British and American forces to the Soviet Union after the Second World War. The repatriations were agreed to in the Yalta Conference; Stalin claimed the repatriated people were Soviet citizens as of 1939, although many of them had left Russia before or soon after the end of the Russian Civil War or had been born abroad.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriat ... rld_War_II
Allied stance

At the Yalta Conference on 11 February 1945, an agreement was reached on the repatriation of citizens from the signatory states, the US, the UK, and the USSR, to their country of origin. As Yugoslavia was not a signatory, the repatriation of Yugoslav citizens was not mentioned in the agreement. At the time of the Axis retreat from occupied Yugoslavia, the British 5th Corps of the 8th Army was stationed in southern Austria, which was within the area of authority of Field Marshal Harold Alexander.[96] The Yugoslav Army reached southern Carinthia in early May and declared it a part of Yugoslavia. This caused strained relations with the British, who supported an independent Austria in prewar borders.[96][97] Due to Yugoslav refusal to withdraw from Austrian Carinthia, as well as from the Italian city of Trieste, the possibility of an armed conflict between the British forces and the Partisans emerged.[98]
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleiburg_repatriations

So when I understand this correctly the British did sacrifice POW and civilians in their custody to avoid an armed conflict with Yugoslavia.

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Re: Role of British in post war killings in Yugoslavia

#15

Post by Sid Guttridge » 19 Jun 2020, 18:40

Hi history1,

Who mentioned "the Independent State of Croatia" as "an ally of the US, British, etc."?

Not me.

As far as the Allies were concerned all these people were Yugoslavs and Yugoslavia was an Allied country.

Not only were they Yugoslavs, but they were traitors to Yugoslavia and had served the interests of the Axis, who were the common enemy of all the Allies.

Who were the British to refuse their repatriation in these circumstances?

In principle, the initial decision to send them back to Yugoslavia was unexceptionable. Whether it was advisable to continue to do so is another matter.

Cheers,

Sid.

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