Comfort women - a battle about Face?

[Penn44]

Vague definitions need to be considered--what does "Japanese police" mean.Does it cover Korean National Police under Japanese control?Does "civilian brokers" mean Korean and Japanese individuals as well?That 90% of licensed brothel brokers were Korean suggests yes.

All the comfort women in the above cases testify that they were kidnapped or deceived by ethnically Japanese policemen or Japanese agents.

So, the interrogators specifically asked the comfort women the ethnicity of the policeman or agent?

Penn44

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[Kim Sung]

I think forceful abduction policy was already de-facto used before 1942 and was legalized and ratified by the Japanese authorities after 1942. Girl hunting already started in Northern Kyushu in 1932 where daughters of Korean miners were the main targets.

[Peter H]

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~asiactr/Arc ... 202000.pdf

Along with the Allies and the Japanese Government, Kim-Gibson explained, the Korean government and society was also guilty of silencing the comfort woman issue immediately after the war. Under Japanese colonization, she argued, many Koreans collaborated with the Japanese in recruiting women for the sex slave system. She said that, in some circumstances, the Korean accomplices may have had no choice, but in others, she believes, they were not always forced to collaborate and are therefore ashamed. Furthermore, Kim-Gibson said, when the war was over the newly liberated Korean government did not do anything. Claiming the women were "too ashamed" to ome forward after the war, she said, other people attribute the long silence to the Korean women themselves. Nevertheless, Kim-Gibson said, she could not find many former comfort women who supported this assumption. Although she looked for women who felt "ashamed", she said, she didn’t find many. Most of her interviewees talked about and wanted to talk about it, but were compelled to keep silent by their own government,society, and families who were more ashamed than themselves.

Did any Korean men resist these abductions and thus were killed by the Japanese?

[Kim Sung]

Did any Korean men resist these abductions and thus were killed by the Japanese?

Maybe no except some desperate cases shown by their family members. It would have been a suicidal action to resist in such situations. Whether we will consider this passiveness and acquiescence as collaboration is a moot point.

[Penn44]

Did any Korean men resist these abductions and thus were killed by the Japanese?

Maybe no except some desperate cases shown by their family members.

"Maybe no except ..." I take it that you do not know for certain, but that you are speculating.

Penn44

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[Peter H]

How testimonies vary.

Lee Yong-soo,former comfort woman.

People's Daily,2006:

I was out on an errand when I was 16 when I was kidnapped. People say Japanese are bad but there were bad Koreans too. Two people kidnapped me - one Japanese and one Korean," she said.

US Congress Hearing,15th February 2007:

In the autumn of 1944, when I was 16 years old, my friend, Kim Punsun, and I were collecting shellfish at the riverside when we noticed an elderly[Korean] man and a Japanese man looking down at us form the hillside. The older man pointed at us with his finger, and the Japanese man started to walk towards us. The older man disappeared, and the Japanese beckoned to us to follow him. I was scared and ran away, not caring about what happened to my friend. A few days later, Punsun knocked on my window early in the morning, and whispered to me to follow her quietly. I tip-toed out of the house after her. I left without telling my mother. I was wearing a dark skirt, a long cotton blouse buttoned up at the front and slippers on my feet. I followed my friend until we met the same man who had tried to approach us on the riverbank. He looked as if he was in his late thirties and he wore a sort of People’s Army uniform with a combat cap. Altogether, there were five girls with him, including myself.

CNN,3rd March 2007:

Lee Yong-soo, 78, a South Korean who was interviewed during a recent trip to Tokyo, said she was 14 when Japanese soldiers took her from her home in 1944 to work as a sex slave in Taiwan.

First abducted,then enticed,then abducted.

Note the variations in age.In some accounts she is said to have spent 3 years in brothels,one year in the official US Subcommitee Hearing findings.

I blame the press for planting suggestions in her head.

[Kim Sung]

Note the variations in age.In some accounts she is said to have spent 3 years in brothels,one year in the official US Subcommitee Hearing findings.

I blame the press for planting suggestions in her head.

This is the most common misunderstanding of foreigners who don't understand Korean age system. The explanation below would be some help. This common misunderstanding was already covered in many internet forums. Japanese right wingers nitpicked Hwang Kum-Joo's testimony with the same wrong logic. They fell into a logical trap that they made themselves.

This is a somewhat messy issue. As far as I know, (except Turkey) South Korea is one and only country in the world in which three different age systems coexist chaotically. ( Even North Korea uses only "WESTERN AGE". ) Here's a simple explanation with formulae. When a South Korean says his current age without specification in normal life, it is assumed to be a "KOREAN AGE(URI NAI)". ( Formula: "That year" - "The year of the birth" plus 1 ). However, in biographical documents, "YEAR
AGE(YEON NAI)" is mostly used without specification. ( Formula: "That year" - "The year of the birth". ).

In offical and legal documents, both "WESTERN AGE(MAN NAI)" and "YEAR AGE" have been used with specification. Recently the usage of "YEAR AGE" is a tendency to increase in the law. ( As you know, "WESTERN AGE" is one year less than "YEAR AGE" if the birthday is not passed yet. )

Morever, about 1/3 of the population still celebrate their birthdays according to the lunar calendar, so only God may know how "OLD" they are. In daily life, "YEAR AGE" is often used as the substitute of "WESTERN AGE" because of the simple math. In media, there is no consensus at all on the age representation. They often use "KOREAN AGE" - 1 or 2 while specifying it as "WESTERN AGE". They even gave up the verification of the age according to the date of the birth long time ago.

Ms.Lee ( Lee Yong-soo ) was born in Dec. 13, 1928. In the House of the Representatives she testified that she was born in 1928
and she was 16 years old in the autumn of 1944 ( which is consistent with her recent statements ).

Some korean media assumed that this is her "KOREAN AGE" and reported that in the House she testified that she was 14 years old in "WESTERN AGE" in 1944.
http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/s ... ssetid=455

Now, do the math by yourself. In 1944, her "KOREAN AGE" was 17(1944 - 1928 plus 1) and her "WESTERN AGE" was 15 or 16 and must have been 15 ( since it was in autumn. ). There is no way to deduce the number '14', which means that the media even did not concern the year of her birth during the age conversion. I guess that the same mistake must have occured in the CNN report during interpretation.

Then, what on earth does '16 years old in 1944' mean? It must be her "YEAR AGE". I assume that she has been advised to do so because of consistensy among the biographical documents. Besides, there have been so many attacks on age inconsistency so that they may have chosen the simplest one. ( 1944 - 1928 = 16, simple, isn't it? )

So far I have shown the state of chaos in the age sytems in South Korea. Is that Ms.Lee's fault? The ages ( especially biographical ones ) of South Koreans appearing in news articles ( domestically or internationally ) are vulnerable to errors.

If a research analysis based on those meanningless data concludes that the comfort women themselves are untruthful, the analysis is just a bunch of garbage and the researcher must be a very incompetent scholar or a very dishonest cheater who deceives the public.

Considering her phychological shock and burden caused by the Japanese criminals' sexual exploitation in her sensitive age, some variations of testimony are quite understandable.

[Peter H]

That's about 1% relevant to the core issue here--she was enticed,duped(via her friend) to become a comfort woman.Involved in this was a Korean "whoremonger" as well as one Japanese policeman who lead 5 Korean girls passively away to their fate.

Her truthful testimony to the US Subcommittee establishes there was no abduction.

"A very dishonest cheater who deceives the public"-that about sums up the press coverage of this woman.

[Penn44]

Considering her phychological shock and burden caused by the Japanese criminals' sexual exploitation in her sensitive age, some variations of testimony are quite understandable.

This subject of memory and trauma is now relatively well-researched due to the debates over "recovered memories." Research has shown that core elements of memory is relatively unaffected by trauma. Source: Remembering Trauma by Richard J. McNally.

The fact that her story changes from one to three years in the brothels is significant, and any "trauma" that she may have experienced should not have affected her sense of time over such a long period.

Kim Sung, you don't have the professional expertise to judge to what degree this woman memory has been affected by trauma.

Other factors could be involved to include current senility or the possibility that she could be embellishing her story.

Penn44

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[Kim Sung]

That's about 1% relevant to the core issue here--she was enticed,duped(via her friend) to become a comfort woman.Involved in this was a Korean "whoremonger" as well as one Japanese policeman who lead 5 Korean girls passively away to their fate.

Her truthful testimony to the US Subcommittee establishes there was no abduction.

"A very dishonest cheater who deceives the public"-that about sums up the press coverage of this woman.

It's your opinion. In the above testimony (the second one), it is not clear whether he was a whoremonger or not and what role the Korean guy played. Most of the Japanese policemen in Korea couldn't speak Korean well so Korean auxiliary agents accompanied them as interpreters or informants. If his role was just an interpreter or a road guide, his role is passive and subsidiary. And western and other Asian media coverage on comfort women issue often misleads.

[Kim Sung]

This subject of memory and trauma is now relatively well-researched due to the debates over "recovered memories." Research has shown that core elements of memory is relatively unaffected by trauma. Source: Remembering Trauma by Richard J. McNally.

That's just one view on PTSD.

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm

Memory loss, the inability to "think straight," the feeling that one is lost in a fog: these are the most salient features of PTSD, the most common complaints. Right after the trauma, the fog rolls in and it is at this time that the patient must seek immediate help, because it can only get worse.

In group, one common thread, one common expression is: "Did it really happen, or did I dream it." The war is far away now. What we all did there is far away. Did it really happen? Pieces, huge chunks are missing. There isn’t a one in my group who doesn’t complain of CRS (Can’t Remember Stuff) on a regular basis.

Additionally, should one of us lose it, go off and have a psychotic episode, memory loss is a given and subsequent cognitive losses can also occur.

[Peter H]

This is what she told a Chinese newspaper:

I was out on an errand when I was 16 when I was kidnapped. People say Japanese are bad but there were bad Koreans too. Two people kidnapped me - one Japanese and one Korean," she said.

It appears that Korean brokers,"whoremongers" only got bad press when the girls ended up in Chinese hands.

From the Korean newspaper The Dong-a Ilbo.

June 30, 1933
"A Korean kidnaps a girl on the road and police arrest him. The man seems to have tried to kidnap the girl, and to sell her off to the Chinese for prostitution".





December 4, 1938
"Cheated young women of good families.Tried to sell her to Manchurians.The Pusan police station arrests the criminal."




August 31, 1939
"The malignant trader is active behind the scenes.Kidnapped young women in the farm village.100 victim women or more.The detectives from Pusan rush to Mukden(Manchuria)".

[Penn44]

This subject of memory and trauma is now relatively well-researched due to the debates over "recovered memories." Research has shown that core elements of memory is relatively unaffected by trauma. Source: Remembering Trauma by Richard J. McNally.

That's just one view on PTSD.

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/mental_health/ptsd.htm

Memory loss, the inability to "think straight," the feeling that one is lost in a fog: these are the most salient features of PTSD, the most common complaints. Right after the trauma, the fog rolls in and it is at this time that the patient must seek immediate help, because it can only get worse.

In group, one common thread, one common expression is: "Did it really happen, or did I dream it." The war is far away now. What we all did there is far away. Did it really happen? Pieces, huge chunks are missing. There isn’t a one in my group who doesn’t complain of CRS (Can’t Remember Stuff) on a regular basis.

Additionally, should one of us lose it, go off and have a psychotic episode, memory loss is a given and subsequent cognitive losses can also occur.

Your above source was written by a patient, not a clinical expert on PTSD.

Your above situation does not apply to her story discrepancies of one to three years.

The majority of persons who experience a traumatic event do not develop PTSD. We do not know if this woman has PTSD, and whether her memory was impaired on the account of it. Again, persons who experience trauma do not lose core elements of the story, and it is short-term memory that is subsequently affected (that’s the fog), not the long-term memory. This woman should have had a better recollection of whether her experiences ran one or three years.

If her memory was so affected (I don’t think it is so, but you so seem to believe), then you have to question the reliability of her entire account. You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.

Penn44

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[Kim Sung]

The majority of persons who experience a traumatic event do not develop PTSD.

A strange theory.

We do not know if this woman has PTSD, and whether her memory was impaired on the account of it. Again, persons who experience trauma do not lose core elements of the story, and it is short-term memory that is subsequently affected (that’s the fog), not the long-term memory. This woman should have had a better recollection of whether her experiences ran one or three years.

That is a mere conjecture.

[Penn44]

We do not know if this woman has PTSD, and whether her memory was impaired on the account of it. Again, persons who experience trauma do not lose core elements of the story, and it is short-term memory that is subsequently affected (that’s the fog), not the long-term memory. This woman should have had a better recollection of whether her experiences ran one or three years.

That is a mere conjecture.

No it is not.

This woman may be hazy about what she did on a day to day basis, but she should have a clear idea of whether she spent one or three years in a brothel. That's the difference between short-term, near-term, long-term and remote memory.

It is also interesting that she can give fairly detailed accounts of her alleged abduction/not an abduction entry in her ordeal as well as discuss other details of her experiences. It is very amazing that she is unable to remain consistent in her story on whether she was one or three years in brothels.

Penn44

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