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Black Luftwaffe pilots.

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.

Black Luftwaffe pilots.

Postby Andy H on 26 Aug 2004 11:26

Whilst looking for more information about the Heroro War, I came upon this item:-

But many Blacks, steadfast in their belief that they were German first, Black second, opted to remain in Germany. Some fought with the Nazis (a few even became Lutwaffe pilots!). Unfortunately, many Black Germans were arrested, charged with treason, and shipped in cattle cars to concentration camps.


http://amonhotep.com/2004/0901.html

I have never come across a picture of a Black Luftwaffe pilot, and I would assume that such a picture would have surfaced in at least one of the many Luftwaffe books I have seen and read.

Can anyone throw some light on this claim?

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Postby Christian W. on 26 Aug 2004 16:45

I dont see anything strange about that. Hitler didnt have any special love to black people but he liked then more than he did yews. :?
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Postby O.P. on 26 Aug 2004 17:19

The writer may have gotten confused and mistaken the term "Black Men" in the Luftwaffe. "The Black Men", was the term, or name for Luftwaffe ground crews.
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Postby Eden Zhang on 27 Aug 2004 08:21

O.P. wrote:The writer may have gotten confused and mistaken the term "Black Men" in the Luftwaffe. "The Black Men", was the term, or name for Luftwaffe ground crews.


This still does not explain how the author of the book came to the conclusion that those "Black Luftwaffe Pilots" were deported to concentration camps.
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Postby O.P. on 27 Aug 2004 09:49

Eden Zhang wrote:
O.P. wrote:The writer may have gotten confused and mistaken the term "Black Men" in the Luftwaffe. "The Black Men", was the term, or name for Luftwaffe ground crews.


This still does not explain how the author of the book came to the conclusion that those "Black Luftwaffe Pilots" were deported to concentration camps.


Hi Eden!

I guess what I really meant to say is, The writer is full of krap. I thought about it, and thought about it, and the only way I could extrapolate his statement is that the writer might have heard the words "Black Men" and "Luftwaffe" somewhere, and came up with "Pilots". I have no doubt that there were Black people in Nazi Germany, and their fates were probably as he described, horrible. But a Black Luftwaffe pilot?....naahhhh, thats just BS.

I don't know about you guys, but I see or hear this kind of junk, in what would seem to be coming from a reputuble publication, website, or person, a couple of times a month or more. Where I'm from, it seems like history is being revised on a daily basis to fit a political angle, a monetary angle, or to just sharpen an axe. With the generations (now) of historical, and just plain academic, retards, coming out of the school systems here, garbage statements like the one our "writer" wrote, are rapidly becoming an historical "fact", just because it was printed, and it fits an ideology/axe sharpener. The only lesson these being's (I'm being polite) have learned from history, WWII history, is how to twist history to fit an ideology, and apparently they learned from the master of propaganda of that time.

Sorry about the rant dudes.
I've kind of already resigned myself to a future of listening to my grandchildren in my old age, tell me they learned in school today, that Gandalf, Winston Churchill, and the pink power ranger, spat fire (pun intended) to defeat the bla....AfricanGerman Luftwaffe squadron at the Battle of Britain.
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Postby tonyh on 27 Aug 2004 10:22

I don't think anyone knows much at all about black people in Germany or anything about their "fate". I have yet to see any pic of a black person in a concentration camp or any pic of them being persecuted in Germany.

In fact, the only black person I am aware of invovled in nazi Germany, is Mathais, a member of Hans Marsailles JG27 ground crew. He returned to Germany after JG27 left africa and he was very well treated by the Germans he met. He even stayed in Germany after the war ended.

Hans J. Massaquoi wrote an interesting book about his experiences as a black person growing up in nazi Germany. Although I haven't read it fully myself, I think it might surprise a few people.


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Postby grassi on 10 Sep 2004 14:46

Hi!

My mom told me that this book is worth reading:

Hans-Jürgen Massaquoi (*1926) is the son of the Bertha Nikodijevic (white, German) and Al-Haj Massaquoi (black, Liberia). He was living in Hamburg throughout the war.


Hans-Jürgen Massaquoi,
„Neger, Neger, Schornsteinfeger“,
Knauers (Taschenbuchausgabe) 1999.
ISBN: 3-426-61854-0

Grassi

P.S.: On this foto Han-Jürgen wears a shirt with a swastika.
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Postby Psycho Mike on 10 Sep 2004 20:01

I read the book. interesting story. The book is known as DESTINED TO WITNESS in the states. It is in print here I believe.

He was not allowed in the Hitler Youth and that really hurt him. He was emotionally upset about it! His friends were all in it. But Germany had no idea what to with him or most of the others. So he was pretty much left alone.

He was not allowed in the Army either. Nor could he date a white woman. However, when the war ended it turned out many of the women he lived around had developed a fantasy- and then he did date them.

He lives in Chicago and writes for JET and EBONY.
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Postby Defiant on 13 Sep 2004 08:38

Hi,
I read with interest your comments regarding black pilots in the Luftwaffe.I have a book in my collection titled "Zerstörer",The Messerschmitt 110 and its units in 1940 and although there is no mention of black pilots it is interesting to note that a Hungarian,namely,Uffz Balthasar Aretz flew his 110 with 2./Erpr.Gr.210 during the Battle of Britain,the Russian front and the Mediterranean and survived the war.I wonder how many other non Germans fought with the Luftwaffe??
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Postby O.P. on 14 Sep 2004 17:21

Defiant wrote:Hi,
I read with interest your comments regarding black pilots in the Luftwaffe.I have a book in my collection titled "Zerstörer",The Messerschmitt 110 and its units in 1940 and although there is no mention of black pilots it is interesting to note that a Hungarian,namely,Uffz Balthasar Aretz flew his 110 with 2./Erpr.Gr.210 during the Battle of Britain,the Russian front and the Mediterranean and survived the war.I wonder how many other non Germans fought with the Luftwaffe??


Hi Defiant!

I'm not sure if it counts, but all of the pilots and crews of the Austrian air force flew in the Luftwaffe when Austria was "Annexed" by Germany. They formed the basis for JG-54. I personally know of at least one instance of a Finnish pilot flying with the Luftwaffe. My friends mother, from germany, was a young woman during the war, she had close relatives in Finland, and her cousin or uncle, don't remember, flew HE-111's for the Luftwaffe and was eventually killed doing that. He took a lot of pictures and she ended up with them. She had a lot of pictures of HE-111's on the ground and in the air over what looks like Russia. There was also a lot of family pictures of Finland and him in Luftwaffe uniform relaxing with his family. She said they left Finland and came to Germany when the Russians took it, when the Germans took it back, they went back home, and he flew with a Luftwaffe bomber group. Very cool pictures. Very small pictures. They were like, 1"X 2", something like that. My friend has them now and I've been meaning to scan them, as soon as I do, you guys will be the first to see them.
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Postby Andy H on 14 Sep 2004 17:37

Thank you all for your input, it seems that the 'Black' pilots of the Luftwaffe were just a misunderstanding of terminology.

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Postby rusty on 15 Sep 2004 10:16

this is something new, evenfor me....

thnx guys
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Postby No Frills on 20 Jul 2007 23:06

so Blacks diddn't get in anywhere in the Nazi Military?
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Postby Andreas on 21 Jul 2007 10:08

tonyh wrote:I don't think anyone knows much at all about black people in Germany or anything about their "fate". I have yet to see any pic of a black person in a concentration camp or any pic of them being persecuted in Germany.

In fact, the only black person I am aware of invovled in nazi Germany, is Mathais, a member of Hans Marsailles JG27 ground crew. He returned to Germany after JG27 left africa and he was very well treated by the Germans he met. He even stayed in Germany after the war ended.

Hans J. Massaquoi wrote an interesting book about his experiences as a black person growing up in nazi Germany. Although I haven't read it fully myself, I think it might surprise a few people.


Tony


There were 600-800 mixed-race children in the Rhineland, fathers being coloured French soldiers and mothers German. They were illegally and forcibly sterilised in spring 1937.

http://hss.ulb.uni-bonn.de/diss_online/ ... a/0091.pdf (p. 137-8)

All the best

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Postby Chris M on 01 Aug 2007 04:50

I bought this photo some time ago of a man whose father was a colonial administrator in German Southwest Africa (today Namibia) and whose mother was a native woman. When the official returned to Germany, he took his son with him. This photo purportedly shows the man while serving in the army. The woman is his wife, a mixed race German from the Rhineland. (The boy is a neighbor's child, not theirs.) I believe the hair and features on both persons clearly show a mix of negroid and caucasian ancestry. I believe there were a number of such anomalies in the German Army -- I have the Luftwaffe Soldbuch of a Jewish man in my collection who served in the Luftwaffe throughout the war. His religious data is given as: (translated) "Father: Jew; Mother: Illigitimate Non-Aryan." (This was a common subterfuge to avoid discrimination and persecution -- Jewish parents would claim that the wife had had an affair with a Gentile German, and their child was therefore only 50 percent Jewish with a Gentile father). Field Marshall Milch, for example, was Jewish. So I think there are exceptions to most rules in regards to the German Wehrmacht.[/img]
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