Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East
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A-H Guns at Gallipoli
My understanding, probably based on reading Liman von Sanders or Kannengeiser, was that the A-M 24 cm Mörsern were sent to ANZAC and the 15 cm howitzers to the beachhead at the tip of Gallipoli, and that the latter guns were German, not A-H. (Possibly the guns were German and the crews Austrian?)
My father said that the guns were very effective, and when they started fireing, each morning you could see an Aussie grave yard creep higher up a hill; the victims were buried under cover of night. Does anyone know where there was an ANZAC field of graves visible to the Turks? It would make sense; one would want to use the sheltered reverse slope for dugouts, etc., in other words the living; the Turks probably would not bother shelling graves. If someone has an answer I have another clue as to what my father did at Gallipoli, or where he was, at least.
Also I recall an Allied general (Birdwood?) tell Bean that he was afraid that they were going to be blown off the beaches. This was late in the campaign.
Is my belief that only a fraction of the Turkish-made shells would explode on impact correct? Say one in three?
My father said that the guns were very effective, and when they started fireing, each morning you could see an Aussie grave yard creep higher up a hill; the victims were buried under cover of night. Does anyone know where there was an ANZAC field of graves visible to the Turks? It would make sense; one would want to use the sheltered reverse slope for dugouts, etc., in other words the living; the Turks probably would not bother shelling graves. If someone has an answer I have another clue as to what my father did at Gallipoli, or where he was, at least.
Also I recall an Allied general (Birdwood?) tell Bean that he was afraid that they were going to be blown off the beaches. This was late in the campaign.
Is my belief that only a fraction of the Turkish-made shells would explode on impact correct? Say one in three?
It must be remembered that most of the guns of the Dardanelles coastal defences were also eventually used at Helles,Anzac in a ground role.
Forty-nine howitzers and mobile guns were withdrawn and redeployed in May-June 1915.Another twenty-one followed in August-September.
Of the 92 mobile howitzers and mortars available in March 1915 used in the Intermediate Defences of the Dardanelles forts,only 22 were still in position after September.
Usedom relates in a memo in October 1915 that:
Therefore even before the Austrian arrival,howitzers and mortars were being used in the ground fighting,transfered from the coastal defences and most likely some with German crews.
Forty-nine howitzers and mobile guns were withdrawn and redeployed in May-June 1915.Another twenty-one followed in August-September.
Of the 92 mobile howitzers and mortars available in March 1915 used in the Intermediate Defences of the Dardanelles forts,only 22 were still in position after September.
Usedom relates in a memo in October 1915 that:
Owing to the transfer of the eight 6-inch howitzers and three 8.2 inch mortars there remained only in fortress D of high angle guns the following:
(1) On the European side;one 6-inch howitzer battery of 4 howitzers.No mortar batteries.
(2)On the Asiatic coast;three 6-inch howitzer batteries,each of 4 howitzers.One 8.4-inch battery of six mortars.
Therefore even before the Austrian arrival,howitzers and mortars were being used in the ground fighting,transfered from the coastal defences and most likely some with German crews.
It must be remembered that the future threat of heavy howitzers at Gallipoli was in Kitchener's mind as well when the evacuation decision was being discussed,but the reality could be seen as somewhat different.
Logistics to the Peninsula were in disarray by December 1915.The British had shelled and knocked out the Kavak Bridge,the main link of the land supply route on the Bulair Isthmus.Sea communications in the Marmara were under constant submarine attack.The flow of food,clothing,ammunition was down.
Count Metternich,who visited the Turkish lines with Liman von Sanders in December wrote:
Getting the guns in took an effort,but adequately supplying them with ammunition was another matter.This could also be seen as a short term problem that would have improved after winter,with its bad weather,was over by March 1916.
Logistics to the Peninsula were in disarray by December 1915.The British had shelled and knocked out the Kavak Bridge,the main link of the land supply route on the Bulair Isthmus.Sea communications in the Marmara were under constant submarine attack.The flow of food,clothing,ammunition was down.
Count Metternich,who visited the Turkish lines with Liman von Sanders in December wrote:
If we had only known what the state of the Turkish Army was,it would have gone hard with us.
Getting the guns in took an effort,but adequately supplying them with ammunition was another matter.This could also be seen as a short term problem that would have improved after winter,with its bad weather,was over by March 1916.
The Beach Cemetery at Anzac:
http://www.awm.gov.au/gmaps/cemeteries/beach.asp
"Beachy Bill" was a Turkish battery located at the Olive Grove south of Gaba Tepe.
http://www.awm.gov.au/gmaps/cemeteries/beach.asp
"Beachy Bill" was a Turkish battery located at the Olive Grove south of Gaba Tepe.
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Artillary Captain von Trocevski group commander of 2nd Austrian-Hungarian obus Artillary battary on the west of Muntar Tepe/Mantar Tepe during Gazze battle of march 26th died gun at hand at 17:15 fighting bravely againts advancing British after His battary were damaged.
May he rest in peace!
So more it be!
Trocevski Dein Lager ist Oesterreich.
May he rest in peace!
So more it be!
Trocevski Dein Lager ist Oesterreich.
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East
I'm a new member and the information I have might be out dated, but here is what I could find about Austrian units in operation within the Ottoman Empire during World War I.
K.u.K. 20 c/m M. 15 kanonenbatterie Nº 20 (based at macar tabya / istanbul)
Öst. Ung. Haubitzbatterie No. 36 (based at top hâne / istanbul & sallal / israel)
K.u.K. automob. 24 cm. mörserbatterie abteilung (based at ak baş iskele'si / dardanelles)
Batterie 2 der k.u.k Feldhaubitz (based at bi’r es seb’a / israel)
K.u.K. Abteilung f.d. 24 cm. Mörser-Batterie No. 9 (based at bi’r es seb’a & hayfa / israel)
BATTERIE 1. DER K.u.K. FELDHAUBITZENABTEILUNG (based at el arîş / egypt)
K.u.K. GEBIRGSARTILLERIEREGIMENT Nr. 6 / HAUBITZ-DIVISION (based at el arîş / egypt & gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. LUFTFAHRTRUPPEN BALLONABTEILUNG Nr. 22 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.k. Res. Feldkanonenregiment Nr. 54 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. 10.5 M. 14 Türkeifeldhaubitz-Batterie No. 2 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. FELDGENDARMERIEDETACHEMENT (based at geli bolu / dardanelles & keşan / thrace)
KRAFTWAGENKOLONNE TÜRKEI No 1 (based at mardin / turkey)
KRAFTWAGENKOLONNE TÜRKEI No 3 (based at diyarbakır / turkey)
K.u.k. Res. Feldkanonenregiment Nr. 54 (based at nablus / palestine)
K.u.K. GEBIRGSHAUBITZBATTERIE 1/4 (based at sofer / lebanon & kuds)
K.u.k. Gebirgshaubitzbatterie Nr. 2 / g-6 der Gebirgshaubitzdivision v. Marno (based at sofer / lebanon)
Best Regards
K.u.K. 20 c/m M. 15 kanonenbatterie Nº 20 (based at macar tabya / istanbul)
Öst. Ung. Haubitzbatterie No. 36 (based at top hâne / istanbul & sallal / israel)
K.u.K. automob. 24 cm. mörserbatterie abteilung (based at ak baş iskele'si / dardanelles)
Batterie 2 der k.u.k Feldhaubitz (based at bi’r es seb’a / israel)
K.u.K. Abteilung f.d. 24 cm. Mörser-Batterie No. 9 (based at bi’r es seb’a & hayfa / israel)
BATTERIE 1. DER K.u.K. FELDHAUBITZENABTEILUNG (based at el arîş / egypt)
K.u.K. GEBIRGSARTILLERIEREGIMENT Nr. 6 / HAUBITZ-DIVISION (based at el arîş / egypt & gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. LUFTFAHRTRUPPEN BALLONABTEILUNG Nr. 22 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.k. Res. Feldkanonenregiment Nr. 54 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. 10.5 M. 14 Türkeifeldhaubitz-Batterie No. 2 (based at gazze / palestine)
K.u.K. FELDGENDARMERIEDETACHEMENT (based at geli bolu / dardanelles & keşan / thrace)
KRAFTWAGENKOLONNE TÜRKEI No 1 (based at mardin / turkey)
KRAFTWAGENKOLONNE TÜRKEI No 3 (based at diyarbakır / turkey)
K.u.k. Res. Feldkanonenregiment Nr. 54 (based at nablus / palestine)
K.u.K. GEBIRGSHAUBITZBATTERIE 1/4 (based at sofer / lebanon & kuds)
K.u.k. Gebirgshaubitzbatterie Nr. 2 / g-6 der Gebirgshaubitzdivision v. Marno (based at sofer / lebanon)
Best Regards
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Re: Lists of Austro-Hungarian Units Galliopli/Middle East
Mehraba, Osman;
Thank you for that information. As to the pal who mentioned that none of the men seem to be carrying rifles, Osman's list has no infantry units, and the "Military Police Detachment" could be any size, but almost certainly was small, the term "Abteilung", in this context (not artillery or machine gun units) would usually be applied to a very small temporary formation, even only a few dozen soldiers.
I have been reading almost everything that I can find on Gallipoli from the Turkish side, in several languages, and I have never seen any mention of Austrian formations at Gallipoli during the fighting, except for the two batteries very late in the campaign. Correcting something that I wrote several years ago in this thread, the 15 cm howitzer battery at Helles in December was Austrian. They had considered bringing a 30.5 cm Moto=Moerser battery there, but an advance party of Austrian artillery officers which traveled the route reported that the lighter 24 cm motorized guns would be much better on the trip. My father saw those in action at ANZAC and thought them very effective.
Anyone know anything about the 8.2 inch mortars mentioned above? Maybe the term was "21 cm Moerser" (Umlaut "o" unfortunately not provided), which would have probably been a 21 cm or 8.2" howitzer. But I did not know of the Turks possessing such a large high-angle fire weapon. Possibly from the large purchases of about 1875? Krupp was building such a gun at that time.
Bob
Thank you for that information. As to the pal who mentioned that none of the men seem to be carrying rifles, Osman's list has no infantry units, and the "Military Police Detachment" could be any size, but almost certainly was small, the term "Abteilung", in this context (not artillery or machine gun units) would usually be applied to a very small temporary formation, even only a few dozen soldiers.
I have been reading almost everything that I can find on Gallipoli from the Turkish side, in several languages, and I have never seen any mention of Austrian formations at Gallipoli during the fighting, except for the two batteries very late in the campaign. Correcting something that I wrote several years ago in this thread, the 15 cm howitzer battery at Helles in December was Austrian. They had considered bringing a 30.5 cm Moto=Moerser battery there, but an advance party of Austrian artillery officers which traveled the route reported that the lighter 24 cm motorized guns would be much better on the trip. My father saw those in action at ANZAC and thought them very effective.
Anyone know anything about the 8.2 inch mortars mentioned above? Maybe the term was "21 cm Moerser" (Umlaut "o" unfortunately not provided), which would have probably been a 21 cm or 8.2" howitzer. But I did not know of the Turks possessing such a large high-angle fire weapon. Possibly from the large purchases of about 1875? Krupp was building such a gun at that time.
Bob