War Crimes and Hypocrisy - Lets be honest !

[Peter]

Many people have pointed out that the criteria of WAR CRIME is defined by the winning side in any war. What particularly annoys me is the level of HYPOCRISY exercised in 1945 by the Allies. The German crimes were terrible and were wrong and I am very certain that murder is wrong, no matter who commits it. I’m not an apologist but I cannot believe that it is correct to execute or imprison Germans for perpetrating identical acts to those of the Allies. Either the murderers of both sides are punished or they are not.

A number of German soldiers and civilians were tried and hung for the murder of American, British and Commonwealth airmen who had baled out from aircraft engaged on bombing raids. In my mind this is correct punishment however it is only correct if it is consistent with the treatment of Luftwaffe airmen by Allied civilians.

A few examples:

On 20 May 1940 a Messerschmitt Bf110 of 9 Staffel Zerstorergeschwader 26 was shot down by French fighters near Luchy, France. Its pilot, Uffz Wilhelm Ross (born 27 Jan 1917 at Duisburg) and gunner both baled out, the gunner landed injured and both were captured by French soldiers and civilians. The Pilot was pushed around a little and then shot in the head and killed.

On 26 Aug 1940 a Heinkel He111 of 4 Staffel, Kampfgeschwader 55 based at Chartres in France was shot down by RAF fighters and was crash landed by its wounded pilot Leutnant Albert Metzger on the beach at East Wittering in Sussex. Metzger couldn’t get out of the bomber due to wounds but his crew Uffz. Rudolf Schandner (Observer), Fw. Julius Urhahn (Flight Mechanic), Uffz. Rudi Paas (Radio Operator) and Flgr. Rudolf Fessel (Gunner) climbed out to surrender to A Company, 2nd Battalion, Duke of Cornwall’s Light Infantry. They were all shot dead on the beach.

On 15 Sep 40 a Dornier Do17Z of 1 Staffel, Kampfgeschwader 76 was shot down over London, it crashed on Victoria Station after some of the crew baled out. Oberleutnant Robert Zehbe (born 9 Dec 1913 Kiel) landed by parachute in Kennington, London. He was captured and beaten to death by a mob of civilians.


In parallel cases to the front line massacres at Wormhoudt in 1940 (by the LSSAH), at Le Paradis (by Totenkopf), at Malmedy (by LSSAH) and in Normandy (by 12th SS Hitler Jugend) there were crimes perpetrated by Allied forces.

Sicily – 1943- Many massacres of prisoners of war were committed by the American 45th (Thunderbird) Division during the invasion of Sicily in 1943. At Comise airfield, a truck load of German prisoners were machine-gunned as they climbed down on to the tarmac, prior to be air-lifted out. Later the same day, 60 Italian prisoners were cut down the same way. On July 14, thirty six prisoners were gunned down near Gela by their guard, US Sergeant Barry West. At Buttera airfield, US Captain Jerry Compton, lined up his 43 prisoners against a wall and machine-gunned them to death. West and Compton were both arrested and convicted of murder. They were sent to the front where both were later killed in action. On April 29, 1945, units of the 45th. liberated the concentration camp of Dachau where more atrocities were committed.

At Chenogne in France (Jan 1, 1945) In the village of Chenogne, the US 11th Armoured Division had captured around sixty German soldiers. Marched to behind a small hill, out of sight of enemy troops still holding the woods beyond the village, the prisoners were subjected to a volley of machine-gun fire. They were shot dead.

At Webling in Germany (in April, 1945) On the same day that the Dachau Concentration Camp was discovered, a massacre took place in Webling, about ten kilometres from Dachau. A Waffen -SS unit had arrived at the hamlet, which consisted of about half a dozen farm houses and barns, to take up defensive positions in trenches dug around the farms. Their orders were to delay the advance of the American tanks and infantry of the 7th.US Army which was approaching Dachau. The farms, mostly run by women with the help of French POWs, came under fire on the morning of 29th.April causing all inhabitants to rush for the cellars. One soldier of the US 222nd. Infantry Regiment of the 42nd Rainbow Division, was killed as they entered the hamlet under fire from the Waffen-SS unit. The first German to emerge from the cellar was the owner of the farm, Herr Furtmayer. He was promptly shot dead. Informed by the French POWs that only civilians were in hiding, the GIs proceeded to round up the men of the SS unit. First to surrender was a former cavalry officer, SS-Hstuf Veit Heinrich Freiherr von Truchsess, (born 6 Apl 1902 in Saarburg) of SS-Flak Abt 9 heading a detachment of seventeen men.The officer was immediately struck with a trenching tool splitting his head open. The other seventeen were lined up in the farmyard and shot. On a slight rise behind the hamlet, another group of eight SS were shot. Their bodies were found lying in a straight line with their weapons and ammunition belts neatly laid on the ground. This would suggest that the men were shot after they surrendered. Altogether, one SS officer and forty one men lay dead as the infantry regiment proceeded on their way to Dachau. Next day the local people, with the help of the French POWs, buried the bodies in a field to be later exhumed by the German War Graves Commission and returned to their families.


On the question of war crimes at sea, in the other posting on War Crimes – U-boats I have given both sides of the story as I see it.

What do you reckon ??????????

Pete



Sources ........After the Battle magazine (23), Battle of Britain then and now -2 and 5 Editions, Blitz then and now, vols 1.2.

[David Thompson]

Iltis -- Thanks for the informative post. I have three questions:

(1) Is it fair to distinguish between war crimes committed as part of an overall government policy from those committed strictly by one or more individuals? Any war crime is reprehensible, but those committed as part of a deliberate government policy seem to me to fall into a worse category than those committed by individual criminals on either side. The reason is that a policy turns people who might otherwise act properly into war criminals.

(2) Did the sources you cited to follow up to see if anyone was accused or punished for the war crimes? (I saw that at least two US soldiers were convicted of war crimes in Sicily). This gets us to the excellent point you raised: "Either the murderers of both sides are punished or they are not."

(3) Did the secondary sources you cited to state where they originally got their information?

The reason I'm asking is that a lot of books on the Holocaust and German war crimes recite some horribly graphic details about one or another crime, but don't follow through on whether or not anyone was punished. This approach leaves the reader angry, with no place to go. Worse, if the narrator didn't do the follow-up research, it leaves the reader with the (possibly mistaken) impression that the crime was never redressed. My feeling of frustration at this unsatisfactory situation is what got me started researching war crimes and war crimes trials.

[Peter]

In the crime against a German aviator in France May 1940 the soldier who did the shooting was not traced but a French civilian was found and upon conviction by Courts Martial (not a civilian court) he was deported to Germany I believe. Surprisingly he was not shot and he did apparently survive the war. The wittness for the prosecution was the Bf110s Air Gunner who later died in action.

The soldiers of the DCLI in the case of the 4 airmen shot on the British beach were not disciplined, the leader had been identified and had reportedly been involved in a similar previous incident in France 1940. A summary of the incident appears in the Battalion war diary (in the Public Records Office in London) where it stated that the airmen were shot to prevent them setting fire to the aircraft (it does not mention that the pilot was still in the aircraft so they were unlikely to have set it on fire). The pilot was rescued after the incident as worked for the German Ministry of Defence in the early 1980s.

Nothing was done about the civilians who killed Robert Zehbe. There are other examples but this was best documented.

Yes you are totally correct these were spontaneous acts, NOT at all premeditated and certainly not state approved - however whilst I understand the motives completely for the Londoners who had been bombed and who caught the unfortunate Zehbe, that makes it hard for me to condemn the German civilians despite their wrong-doing. BUT the Catch 22 situation for me comes with my huge admiration for the airmen operating over occupied Europe and Germany and my disgust at how they were treated. Awkward issue, thats why I posed it.

Pete

[David Thompson]

Iltis -- An excellent post! Thanks! A report of a trial of German citizens for lynching allied airmen (the "Essen Lynching Case") can be found at: : http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/essen.htm
If I find more links I'll put them up.

[Peter]

Thanks David,
interesting material.

cheers
Pete

[tonyh]

Good posts Pete and I concur. The charges of "warcrimes" usually serve the purpose of dehumanising or demonising ones enemy and all sides engage in it. The problem is that the wheat and chafe are intertwined quite often and the accuser always paints itself as an honest whiter than white protagonist.

"Warcrimes" happen in wartime and its impossible (an extremely naive) to believe that only the "bad guys" commit them.

Tony

[Scott Smith]

Any war crime is reprehensible, but those committed as part of a deliberate government policy seem to me to fall into a worse category than those committed by individual criminals on either side. The reason is that a policy turns people who might otherwise act properly into war criminals.

I disagree because in the case of individual atrocities the perpetrators are acting against their own laws and this is a breach of their own discipline. In the case of policy, however, it is only Criminal when defined as such by the Victors or the Victims. Was it "criminal" to bomb cities? Well, the Victors say NO because this was THEIR policy. If they had lost the war then the new Victors, who mostly avoided strategic-bombing, might say that this was "criminal," and therefore "reprehensible warcriminals" like General LeMay would be swinging from a pole. "Crimes of Policy" are by nature political not judicial. Whose-ox-is-being-gored means everything. And the idea of retribution for political-crimes is by nature problematical. Maybe the Germans should have kidnapped Bomber Harris for a fair-trial and execution after the war. Oh wait, the Bundestablishment erected a monument to him in Dresden, or something like that--silly me.

[tonyh]

Oh wait, the Bundestablishment erected a monument to him in Dresden

Are you f*ckin' serious???????????

Tony

[Scott Smith]

Oh wait, the Bundestablishment erected a monument to him in Dresden

Are you f*ckin' serious???????????

Somebody mentioned it here on the forum and I can't remember if it was joke. Anybody? Wouldn't surprise me, though.
:roll:

[Peter]

The US Official photos showing this incident below centre around picture SC271391 (US Official) by T/5 JW Bowen USArmy and SC207127 (the latter clearly showing the body of von Truchsess.

First to surrender was a former cavalry officer, SS-Hstuf Veit Heinrich Freiherr von Truchsess, (born 6 Apl 1902 in Saarburg) of SS-Flak Abt 9 heading a detachment of seventeen men.The officer was immediately struck with a trenching tool splitting his head open. The other seventeen were lined up in the farmyard and shot. On a slight rise behind the hamlet, another group of eight SS were shot.

cheers
Pete

[David Thompson]

Iltis -- Excellent and helpful information, but does it refer to an incident on another thread?

[Peter]

No David, its additional information on one of the examples in my opening post - Webling.

cheers
Pete

[David Thompson]

Ah! Thanks, Iltis -- my mistake!

[Dan]

Iltis, you've added lots of great info. Last night I was subjected to an hour of Malmady to illustraight how good we were and how bad they were. Timo said some time ago that we'll never know whether the Germans or the Western allied commited more murders of captured soldiers in the Western theater. Do you have any broad numbers?

What is your feeling?

[Peter]

Guys
I'm far from being an expert in this field, I just started making notes of stuff 25 years ago (in the Public Record Office in London) and carried on, and I am beginning to sort it out now.

I suspect, and this is pretty strong, that on the subject of aircrew who had baled out or crash landed and were murdered virtually at the point of capture, that the "Allied side" (this being British and French as everything I have seen was 1940) committed less than 5% and that German civilians, HJ or local soldiers on leave at home (this being almost uniquely Winter 1944 into early 1945) committed 95% plus.

On the subject of the murder or shooting of escaped prisoners of war, I can name only 2 shot by the Allies in dubious circumstances, one by the British and one by the US, whereas there are quite a few examples of men in German captivity aside from the Stalag Luft III fifty.

As to what I term -front line massacres- WESTERN front only- such as Malmedy, Le Paradis, Wormhoudt, the Normandy shootings, Webling, Waffen-SS men near and at Dachau, etc, I firmly believe that whilst the number of incidents will never be known, that it was roughly even, 50/50 and it would be hard to say who started it. I have recently read the private papers of a Warrant Officer 2nd Class (Royal Artillery) attached to a Field Security unit in France June 1940, he personally wrote that he had shot 4 prisoners in one day, on orders, for reasons not explained.

The Germans are not solely to blame for "Commando Order" type killings although they did commit the earliest of these type of crimes (I think) with the British Squad on the Telemark Heavy Water raid in Norway. It continued in Italy with some murders of both US and British paras before the SS/Polizei really got going in France with the capture and murder of up to 50 of our SAS operating behind German lines (British uniforms/ Jeeps mounted with machine guns). Obviously the US caught some of Skorzenys SS Sturmbrigade 150 in the Ardennes Offensive (Dec 1944) and shot them (although they were in US uniform). Reports vary on the numbers but I think the US shot up to 20 officially and probably close on 100 in reality.

At sea, and here I have researched it in depth I'm confident that U852 was the only incident which can be proven although I do think that U247s commander Matschulat would have been indicted along with his Gunnery Officer and gunners (if they hadnt died in action weeks later). We obviously dont know if he was trying to sink large bits of wreckage to disguise his presence and thereby survive a little longer, or if he did intend to kill survivors. At sea I do believe that the Allies were considerably worse than the Germans, despite the incredible disparity in size between the German submarine operation and ours, they had huge opportunity to do this and evidently did not whereas we sunk relatively few of their vessels and I believe the British did this at least 3 times. The US are alledged to have shot Jap survivors quite often (for understandable reasons given the possibilities of a lone kamikaze minded chap with a hand grenade and the pressure hull of the sub) whereas the Japs can be proven to have murdered hundreds of British, US, Indian, Chinese, Dutch and Norwegian merchant seamen.

One further interesting enquiry would be airmen machine-gunning other airmen whilst in their parachutes. I have little knowledge but have 2 documented cases against the British/Polish in 1940 over England which resulted in the deaths of 2 German fighter pilots. (Again its hard isnt it, the Polish hated the occupiers of their homeland and our guys must have had enough of seeing aerial armadas bomb our cities and airfields).

Hope this might give some idea of scale

cheers
Pete