The German Campaign in Poland (1939)

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Fragment from the Battle Diary of German VII Armee Korps – 20th of September 1939:

“Military Support”:

When units of Polish army were pressing forward to the west from the region of fierce fighting near Łabunie, and seriously disrupted withdrawal of the division towards the first German-Soviet demarcationline, Corps sent one of artillery commanders to Russians as an envoy. He had to send them greetings and establish contact [with Russian forces].

At the entrance to the city of Zamość waited a horseman in civilian clothes with red band on arm: Pole in Russian service. Overtaking in gallop the German envoys, he led them to the Russian headquarters, located in high, bright-white city hall in Zamość.

"High, bright-white" City Hall in Zamość (modern-day photo):



[…] [In Russian headquarters located in high, bright-white city hall in Zamość] [German] Colonel pass on printed in Russian language welcoming speech [to the Russians]. [Russian] Komissar reads it carefully, as an answer he expresses deep gratitude, he adds however, that [the main] headquarters of the Russian Corps is located not in Zamość, but in a village, 3 hours away from Zamość.

[…] After friendly goodbye, several Russian officers in cars accompanied the Germans [in way from Zamość] to the general [of the Russian Corps].

Characteristic for the new friendship is an event from the passage route. That is, when it started to rain, Russians immediately in a pleasant way invited German envoys to take seats in their roofed cars.

[…] Young, fair-haired [Russian] officer welcomes German officers and leads them to the general. Welcome is warm. [Russian] Commander yet in his first words voices his joy because of signing the German-Russian pact. He has full understanding for [German] request on military support [of the Russian side]. He promises [to give] every realisable help [to the Germans].

[…] Afterwards, the general invites German colonel and his companions for a meal. But before, after an animated discussion, people went to the dining room, the Russian commander clasped both his hands in grip and said:

"Russia and Germany go together, this is a guarantee of peace for Europe!" […]”



Description under the photo says:

“Region of Zamość, 20th of September 1939: discussion of a situation in Soviet headquarters of the Corps.”

[Richard Hargreaves]

Hi Domen,

I think that's from VII Corps' campaign book Wir zogen gegen Polen rather than the war diary as the language is rather 'flowery' for a war diary! Sadly my copy is now in storage so I cannot check.

Almost identical sentiments were expressed in many places where the Russians and Germans met in September 1939, e.g. this meeting near Lemberg/Lvov/Lviv:

Russian riders galloped into Malechow, just beyond Zboiska, riding past the Jäger occupying the village, waving as they went. A Soviet lieutenant climbed down off his horse and greeted the senior German officer with a hearty handshake and 200 cigarettes. ‘Germanski und Bolshewiki zusammen stark,’ he proclaimed in broken German. Together Germans and Bolsheviks strong. ‘He couldn’t speak any more German,’ one Hauptmann recalled, ‘but his sentiments were clear.’ [Hauptmann Wehnert, ‘Bericht über den Einsatz der 2 Kompanie vor Lemberg’ in Das Gebirgsjäger Regiment 99 im polnischen Feldzug, p.98]

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Yes - you are right - this fragment is most probably from "Wir zogen gegen Polen".

The problem is that I don't know any Soviet source which would confirm that some Russian unit or some Russian headquarters (at least headquarters of battalion - maybe recon battalion ?) - were in Zamość on 20th of September.

If any Soviet unit really was in Zamość on 20th of September, most probably this unit had to be some unit from 36. Armoured Brigade.

If this unit reached Zamość during the night from 19th to 20th of September, it could be responsible for repulsing the Polish attack on Zamość (Polish forces forced their way into Zamość but were repulsed by some forces which suddenly came with relief).

Russian riders galloped into Malechow, just beyond Zboiska, riding past the Jäger occupying the village, waving as they went. A Soviet lieutenant climbed down off his horse and greeted the senior German officer with a hearty handshake and 200 cigarettes. ‘Germanski und Bolshewiki zusammen stark,’ he proclaimed in broken German. Together Germans and Bolsheviks strong. ‘He couldn’t speak any more German,’ one Hauptmann recalled, ‘but his sentiments were clear.’ [Hauptmann Wehnert, ‘Bericht über den Einsatz der 2 Kompanie vor Lemberg’ in Das Gebirgsjäger Regiment 99 im polnischen Feldzug, p.98]

Indeed - very similar. Thanks - I didn't know about that episode.

When did it happen? First Soviet units (elements of 24. Armoured Brigade) reached Lwów during the night from 18th to 19th of September 1939 - but it was in the eastern outskirts of the city, not near Zboiska which are to the north-east from Lwów.

But there was also one very unpleasant episode in Soviet-German relations near Lwów.

In the late morning of 19th of September German soldiers from Gebirgsjäger-Regiment 137 marching towards Winniki, didn't know that Winniki had been captured by the Soviet units from 24. Armoured Brigade. In Winniki they suddenly met with the Soviet units and most probably thought that they were Polish units. Germans opened fire. Fierce and quite long fire fight started. Germans lost 3 AT guns, 5 dead and 9 wounded. Soviets lost one tank, two armoured cars, 6 dead and 4 wounded.

The German side apologized soon.

[Richard Hargreaves]

I think that was also on September 20.

Near Winniki, southeast of Lemberg, regimental adjutant Hauptmann Josef Remold could make out the silhouettes of medium tanks. Obviously the last reserves thrown into the battle for the Galician capital by the Poles, he thought. The regiment’s anti-tank guns were aimed at the oncoming armour, extremely difficult given their speed and low outline. What hits were scored simply bounced off the angled armour plating. And as the tanks drew closer, the guns ceased fire; the red Soviet star could clearly be made out on the armour’s hull. [Kaltenegger, Roland, Die Deutsche Gebirgstruppe 1935-1945, p.116]

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

I think that was also on September 20.

No - that was on 19th of September - according to the Soviet sources.

Near Winniki, southeast of Lemberg, regimental adjutant Hauptmann Josef Remold could make out the silhouettes of medium tanks. Obviously the last reserves thrown into the battle for the Galician capital by the Poles, he thought.

And I would say, that if he thought so, it was not totally without any ground, because the Poles really planned to send 21. Light Tanks Battalion (with 45 Renault R-35 tanks) to the region of Lwów.

If it comes to armoured units, in the region of Lwów Poles also had got three armoured trains which were securing the most important railways.

Also the Polish 10. Motorized Brigade untill 17th of September was in the region. On 17th of September and during few previous days 10. Motorized Brigade was fighting north and north-west of Lwów and achieved several big succeses (for example recaptured Zboiska and highs around it - including high 324 -, which would soon have allowed the forces of general Sosnkowski - 24., 38. and 11. infantry divisions of Operational Group "Southern" - to break through to the region between Lwów and Żółkiew), but unfortunately after it received information about the Soviet agression, it was ordered to withdraw to Romania immediately (on 19th of September it crossed the Polish-Romanian border).

But of course the Germans might not know about that. They only knew that 10. Motorized Brigade was withdrawn from Zboiska - Żółkiew region - so they could think that it was ordered to go to the region of Winniki (south of Lwów) to make some counter-attack.

In general Germans were afraid of Polish counterattacks near Lwów, because in some period they could have been attacked in any moment from almost all directions (especcialy 1. Gebirgsdivision had hard time near Lwów).

When taking all of it into consideration, it is not strange that when the Germans suddenly saw tanks, they opened fire to them immediately - not even asking "who's there?" before opening fire.

If it comes to armoured units, in the region of Lwów Poles also had got three armoured trains which were securing the most important railways.

Even though the Soviets reached eastern outskirts of Lwów during the night of 18./19. September, transport across the city was still open (all German attempts of cutting Lwów off from the rest of the Polish territory which was controled by the Poles failed).

Only in the morning of 19th of September three more evacuation trains (which were going to Romanian Bridgehead) crossed Lwów. These were three evacuation trains from Radom, Starachowice and Dęblin. They arrived to Lwów across Dublany and Kamionka Strumiłowa. Only those three trains were transporting - among other things - 4 AA guns 40mm, 12,000 rifles, 2,000 heavy machine guns, 4,000 light machine guns, 5,000 pistols, huge amounts of ammunition of different calibres and hand grenades.

Those three more evacuation trains crossed Lwów but never reached their targets because during further route they were captured by the Soviet forces.

[Njorl]

And I would say, that if he thought so, it was not totally without any ground, because the Poles really planned to send 21. Light Tanks Battalion (with 45 Renault R-35 tanks) to the region of Lwów.

Domen, how do you know the Germans knew what the Poles planned to do with this battalion? Of course provided they knew about its presence in the area...

But of course the Germans might not know about that. They only knew that 10. Motorized Brigade was withdrawn from Zboiska - Żółkiew region - so they could think that it was ordered to go to the region of Winniki (south of Lwów) to make some counter-attack.

How come you're sure that the Germans knew about 10th Cavalry Brigade withdrawal? Did they even know what units they were fighting with?

Regards,
MJU

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Did they even know what units they were fighting with?

Indeed - not always. In fact they often didn't know.

But in that case they had to know that they were fighting with 10. Motorized Brigade, because it was very hard not to recognize soldiers from 10. Motorized Brigade - they looked much differently than soldiers of any other Polish unit due to their helms and uniforms :

Domen, how do you know the Germans knew what the Poles planned to do with this battalion?

I don't know - it was only my supposition. But they could know about that, there is such a possibility.

[Njorl]

But in that case they had to know that they were fighting with 10. Motorized Brigade, because it was very hard not to recognize soldiers from 10. Motorized Brigade - they looked much differently than soldiers of any other Polish unit due to their helms and uniforms

Heh... And the same again... They had to know [...] because it was very hard not to recognize... Come on Domen - you know this, I know this, but did the Germans know it as well? Any hard facts? Or is it just another supposition of yours?

And what was so special about their uniforms that distinguished them from mass of Polish Army?

Did the Germans identify the 11. Dywizjon Pancerny? After all it was the only Polish unit equipped with wz. 29 armoured cars...

Regards,
MJU

[Shoobedoo]

Any hard facts? Or is it just another supposition of yours?

LOL. Yes, the former seem to be in somewhat short supply, for example: the idea that the combat operations of the better part of an entire Soviet Division would be placed under direct German command and control, as was implied in an earlier post, simply defies logic. I'm not saying this was impossible, however, I'm going to need something a bit more substantial than someones contention that the terms of a certain protocol beteween the Soviets and Germans made it "possible", and a few other anecdotal tidbits along these lines, before I'm going to be convinced anything of this magnitude actually occured. It's one thing to show photo's of Russians and Germans shaking hands and looking at maps together as "chums", the so-called "cooperation", yes everyone knows about these meetings and such, but it's something else altogether to claim large Soviet formations directly commanded and controlled by Hitler's generals, I think not.

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

I'm not saying this was impossible, however, I'm going to need something a bit more substantial than someones contention that the terms of a certain protocol beteween the Soviets and Germans made it "possible", and a few other anecdotal tidbits along these lines, before I'm going to be convinced anything of this magnitude actually occured. It's one thing to show photo's of Russians and Germans shaking hands and looking at maps together as "chums", the so-called "cooperation", yes everyone knows about these meetings and such, but it's something else altogether to claim large Soviet formations directly commanded and controlled by Hitler's generals, I think not.

Check there:

Rossijskij gosudarstwiennyj wojennyj archiw (RGWA), 35084-1-24, k. 57.

large Soviet formations directly commanded and controlled by Hitler's generals, I think not

This formation (I'm talking about part of 44. Rifle Division on 26th of September now) was given to the German disposition because of the German request, it was not directly commanded by the German officers.

It was something like temporarily attached unit.

This was in agreement with the paragraph 5. of the German-Soviet protocol signed several days before:

"If the German representatives are asking the Red Army command for help in destroying Polish military units or bands [...], Red Army commands (leaders of marching columns) in accordance to the need, will give at the disposal [of the German Army], forces necessary to destroy obstacles located along the route of the German units."

Or is it just another supposition of yours?

If you read things more carefully, you would know that it is not supposition of mine, but supposition of:

[Kaltenegger, Roland, Die Deutsche Gebirgstruppe 1935-1945, p.116]

It was Hauptmann Josef Remold who was allegedly afraid of Polish armour attack.

[Benoit Douville]

Another interesting fact about The German Campaign in Poland is the fact that Polish General Franciszek Kleeberg never lost a Battle during the whole campaign, although he was eventually forced to surrender at the end of the campaign. He he commanded the Independent Operational Group Polesie. More info about him would be really appreciated.

Regards

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

the fact that Polish General Franciszek Kleeberg never lost a Battle during the whole campaign, although he was eventually forced to surrender at the end of the campaign.

Yes - that's true.

He was fighting with both the Germans and the Soviets (with the Soviets after 17th of September of course) since 14th of September (the battle of Kobryń 14th - 18th of September) until 6th of October (he surrendered at 10:00 on 6th of October after using up the rest of ammunition during the night and in the morning).

The battle of Kobryń took place between 14th and 18th of September. The Germans (units of Guderian) couldn't capture Kobryń which was defended by the Polish 60. (Reserve) Infantry Division "Kobryń" (the division was formed by pułkownik Adam Epler during the campaign).

Kobryń was finally taken by the Germans on 18th of September (during the night from 18th to 19th of September) without combat - the Poles withdrew from Kobryń shortly before that - in the evening of 18th of September -, because quickly advancing Soviet forces were emerging on their rears and the Poles were in danger of being cut off or encircled by the Soviets so they had to withdraw to the south towards Dywin (and later to the west).

After the end of the battle of Kobryń fought against the Germans, during the following days, Kleeberg was in constant contact with the Soviet forces - and fought several major battles with them (for example Małoryta, Piszcza, Jabłoń, Milanów and Parczew).

Some sources say that the Soviet units also participated in the last battle of the general - the battle of Kock (1. - 6. October 1939). Some other sources (mostly those written when Poland was communist and a member of the Warsaw Pact) don’t say anything about it. Some sources, however, seem to exagerrate the level of the Soviet participation in that battle.

And - actually - it is the fact that Kock was in the Soviet hands on 1st of October.

The Germans sent their delegation to the Soviets to Kock during the night of 30th of September / 1st of October.

Officialy it is said, that the German delegation was sent to Kock to negotiate the exact demarcationline - it is not true. The Poles destroyed the delegation and captured some top-secret documents which revealed the real purpose of sending it to the Soviets.

In fact, the German delegation's main target was to discuss with the Soviet command about some details of their future, planned cooperation against the Kleeberg's forces - they had planned to destroy it together and they wanted to discuss the exact plan of doing it in Kock.

The German delegation, however, never reached Kock - it was destroyed – over a dozen minutes after midnight on 1st of October - by the Polish forces on the road from Radzyń Podlaski to Kock (in the Tchórzewski forest).

That is why the last battle of the Polish Campaign took place in the region of Kock – Adamów – Serokomla – Krzywda – Wola Gułowska - so in the region west of the river Tyśmienica.

Before discovering the German-Soviet plans, the Poles planned to fight this battle in the region of Czemiernki, east of the river Tyśmienica – where the Poles would be an easy target to be encircled by the Soviets.

After destroying the German delegation and capturing those important, top-secret documents, Kleeberg decided to cross the river Tyśmienica in Bełczac, and to advance towards the west.

Now his rears were protected by the river Tyśmienica.

Soon he attacked towards Kock, repulsed the Soviet forces from Kock and recaptured the city

Photos showing destroyed on 01 X 1939 German delegation to the Soviets (three armoured cars were from Aufklarungs Abteilung 13.):













Here some more photos of this delegation:

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 45&t=25274

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 41#p181641

According to the relation of Jan Kaczorowski, the regimental doctor of 9. Cavalry Regiment (9. pułk strzelców konnych), all Germans were killed except two mechanics - those were heavilly wounded in heads.

The bridge across which the Kleeberg's forces crossed the river Tyśmienica on 1st of October (bridge in Bełczac):



---------------------------------

By the way:

Here is the photo of another destroyed armoured car described as destroyed in October (but this happened during some totally different event I think - but maybe it also took place during the battle of Kock) - name "Weimar":

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

An oldy but goody, this title is part of the so-called "German Report Series" commissioned by the US Army after the war, and while it may have errors, it is still one of the best overall accounts ever written of the Polish campaign IMO. A high quality Adobe PDF version of this document is available for free download in two parts at the US Army Command and General Staff College combined arms research library (CARL). Hard copies of the original publication can periodically be found on ebay, and usually in relatively nice condition for reasonable prices. Newly published reprints are also available thru Naval & Military Press in the UK.

An oldy but goody

Well - after reading everything from links which you provided more carefully, I must say that it is not "goody" at all.

and while it may have errors

As I said previously that it has got a lot of errors - now I would say that it has got even more of them...

commissioned by the US Army after the war

Not "commissioned" - "commited" - unfortunately.

But it was one of the first such works on those events - at least outside the borders of Poland -, so we can forgive the author...

It is "oldy" as you noticed... - "oldy" and - unfortunately - obsolete yet...

it is still one of the best overall accounts ever written of the Polish campaign IMO...

Where ? - maybe in the USA - but comparing with the best overall accounts of it from the whole world (despite there were not so many of them - and the vast majority of them - including 100% or even 110% of these really good - were Polish or German) which have been written until now, it is more than poor...

A high quality Adobe PDF version of this document is available for free download in two parts at the US Army Command and General Staff College combined arms research library (CARL). Hard copies of the original publication can periodically be found on ebay, and usually in relatively nice condition for reasonable prices. Newly published reprints are also available thru Naval & Military Press in the UK.

Thanks for it - I'm not shure if it deserves for such a high quality Adobe PDF version (maybe only high quality works should be published in high quality versions).

But I still say the same as previously - despite its disadvantages, it is still some source of some basic information (and also - or even mainly - misinformation, not only basic - unfortunately) - but can be useful in some cases, so deserves for its own thread in this forum.

Cheers.

[Shoobedoo]

Well, you have your opinion and I have mine, I suppose we will just have to leave it at that. I'm sorry my endorsement of this publication has put such a bur under your saddle, but go ahead and have the last word, it seems to be your forte. :roll: :roll:

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

If I only start to list you mistakes made by Kennedy in this book, you will probably change your mind quickly...