Malmedy Massacre

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Rob - wssob2
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#16

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 24 Oct 2012, 23:20

This kind of incidents are normal when you go to war.
No, it's not. Humans have regulated war conduct for centuries.

Take any war, any century, there is many more. And every one is tragedy. It is against rules of war, it can not let happen. But still, it happens, and will happen many more times in future.
With such an attitude, I suppose then that no laws should ever be passed, since someday, somewhere, someone might break them.

Ask someone who did take part vietnam, iraq, afganistan or balkan in 90's.
You are conflating a specific war crime with the tragedy of war.

for this Malmedy case, truth is never known.


Yes it is known. Perhaps not by you. But after a dozen books, a movie, and thousands and thousands of pages of trial transcripts, it's pretty well known.


Who did give order to shoot? No idea.

The fact that there was a order coming down the chain of command from Hitler to the Kampfgruppe Peiper company commanders, to kill POWs depending on the battlefield situation is established fact.

Potschke ordering his subordinates to kill the US POWs at Bagneuz Crossroads is established fact.

The SS troops killing the US POWs at the crossroads is established fact.

The $64,000 question is: Did Peiper give a direct order to Poetschke to kill the POWs, or did Poetschke decide to kill them on his own?

Only two people know that, and both are dead. Peiper claimed not to have given the order. But, on the other hand, he probably didn't have to. As Sepp Deitrich said in a staff conference before the attack: "Prisoners? You know what to do with them..."

Was it planned, nobody knows. But not likely.
Read

Crossroads of Death: The Story of the Malmedy Massacre and Trial by James Weingartner
http://www.amazon.com/Crossroads-Death- ... s+of+Death


Fatal Crossroads: The Untold Story of the Malmedy Massacre at the Battle of the Bulge by Danny Parker
http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Crossroads- ... Crossroads

Malmedy Massacre by John Bauserman
http://www.amazon.com/Malmedy-Massacre- ... +Bauserman

if i imagine myself commanding KG Peiper, gambling my own life and my subordinates too, with mission to advance without delays, american POW's would be my littlest worry. Forward to eternity, and beyond.
An eternity of perdition, perhaps.

Peiper's decision to kill POWs (and Belgian civilians) in multiple incidents (roughly 13, not just the Bagneuz Crossroads) was IMO as much grievous tactical error as a war crime. When the US defenses were falling apart, Peiper gave them a moral reason to hold firm.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#17

Post by Trackhead M2 » 24 Oct 2012, 23:55

Rob - wssob2 wrote:
for this Malmedy case, truth is never known.


Yes it is known. Perhaps not by you. But after a dozen books, a movie, and thousands and thousands of pages of trial transcripts, it's pretty well known.

Peiper's decision to kill POWs (and Belgian civilians) in multiple incidents (roughly 13, not just the Bagneuz Crossroads) was IMO as much grievous tactical error as a war crime. When the US defenses were falling apart, Peiper gave them a moral reason to hold firm.
Dear Rob,
Are you thinking of Robert Shaw's line about making them "avenging Soldiers"?
Strike Swiflty,
TH-M2


Rob - wssob2
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#18

Post by Rob - wssob2 » 25 Oct 2012, 00:45

Hi Trackhead M2 ~ I wasn't specifically, but thanks for the reference - I will have to put "Battle of the Bulge" in my Netflix movie queue!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058947/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sha ... ish_actor)

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#19

Post by Trackhead M2 » 25 Oct 2012, 00:57

Rob - wssob2 wrote:Hi Trackhead M2 ~ I wasn't specifically, but thanks for the reference - I will have to put "Battle of the Bulge" in my Netflix movie queue!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058947/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sha ... ish_actor)
Dear Rob,
My pleasure, you might also want to add "The Last Blitzkrieg" with Van Johnson about the Skorzeny unit.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#20

Post by David Thompson » 25 Oct 2012, 01:04

For some our our many other threads on this well-discussed subject, see (in reverse chronological order):

Malmedy - Once again
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=35729
LSSAH war crimes 1939-1945
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=34630
Joachim Peiper and the Malmedy massacres once again
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=32364
Was the Malmedy massacre planned?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=25613
How much was Sepp Dietrich really guilty of?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=24329
My first post is a question about Malmedy
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=13824
Malmedy massacre
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=11445
Malmedy
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5825
BAUGNEZ (Malmedy) once more (Peiper)...
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=280

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Harro
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#21

Post by Harro » 24 Nov 2012, 20:41

Excellent!
Fatal Crossroads

On December 17, 1944, a convoy of unarmored trucks carrying Battery B of the US Army's 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion left Schevenhütte, Germany, near the dark and foreboding Hürtgen Forest that had been the focal point of such vicious combat, for Luxembourg and what was hoped would be some easier duty.

Most of them would never arrive. In the Ardennes, just south of Malmédy, Belgium, at a crossroads called Baugnez, the column fell foul of the spearhead of the German offensive that would become known as the Battle of the Bulge. By the end of the day, some eighty US soldiers would be dead, having surrendered to the improvised German task force known as Kampfgrüppe Peiper, and, unarmed and herded into a field, subsequently murdered by troops of the Waffen SS. It was at least the second such massacre of Western Allied troops by the Waffen SS, the first being the murder of some 80 British POWs near Dunkerque (Dunkirk), France, in 1940. This was also the only such large-scale massacre of American troops by the Germans in World War II.

The Malmédy Massacre, as this incident has become known, is the subject of a new book by Danny S. Parker called Fatal Crossroads: The Untold Story of the Malmédy Massacre at the Battle of the Bulge. I discussed the book in passing earlier and highly recommended it. Now I want to give some meat to that recommendation.

Kampfgrüppe Peiper was a group of elements of the 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, (the same unit that commited the 1940 massacre, with the same commanding officer, Wilhelm Mohnke) under the command of SS Lt. Col. (Obersturmbannführer) Joachim ("Jochen") Peiper. In this desperate, stupidly-conceived and poorly-planned German offensive, Peiper's orders were simple: get to the Meuse River with one tank. As fast as possible.

So, when Kampfgrüppe Peiper encountered the 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion, a number of disparate factors were in play, all of which, unfortunately, worked against the US soldiers. While the Waffen SS was known for committing atrocities on the Eastern Front (where the Soviet Union was not a signatory to the Geneva Convention for treatment of prisoners of war and thus was not entitled to its protections), on the Western Front, where the US, Britain and Germany were signatories to the Geneva Convention, even the Waffen SS generally complied with the convention's protocols.

So, since they had trucks and light weapons against Kampfgrüppe Peiper's tanks (the famous Mark V Panther and the older Mark IV) and heavily-armed halftracks (the Sd.Kfz. 251 and variants thereof), the troops of the 285th knew they would be toast and surrendered. In Parker's description, they seem more disgusted than afraid. They, understandably, had no idea what was coming.

Only slowly would the realization come. From the way they (about 120 in all) were herded into the field. From the yelling they heard from the Germans among themselves. From the vehicles that passed the field. From the US POW being marched to the field who was shot for not keeping his hands up high enough. From the halftrack that seemed to be trying to aim its 75-mm gun at them, only to be frustrated because it could not depress the barrel enough. From the halftracks parking across the road, putting the US POWs within the field of fire of their mounted machine guns. From the tanks parked along the road, mounting their anti-aircraft machine guns, and sighting them on the POWs. From the SS panzergrenadiers mounting machine guns on the sides of halftracks and also sighting them on the US POWs. From SS troops moving ammunition belts close to the machine guns.

So jittery did the US troops become that an officer had to shout "Standfast." Attempts at escape would give the Germans the legal basis for shooting them. A US medic was allowed to treat a wounded POW. When he was finished, he was shot.

And the massacre began, with machine guns on the German vehicles and machine pistols. Some US POWs immediately tried to run away; most were shot down. The remainder immediately went to ground. After the machine gun barrage, SS troops went into the field looking for survivors, whom they would proceed to deliver "mercy shots." Only some 40 survivors, most of them wounded, would make their way to US lines to report the incident, news of which would quickly reach Dwight Eisenhower himself.

The reason for the massacre, as well as the responsibility, has never been fully understood. That is the point of Parker's work in Fatal Crossroads. He seeks to determine whether this was a "battlefield incident," which affects all armies including the US Army, or a "deliberate slaughter."

In his efforts, as I said earlier, Parker has created a military history investigative masterpiece, one that should rank up there with Shattered Sword: The Untold Story of the Battle of Midway, by Jonathan Parshall and Tony Tully; The Battle of Surigao Strait, also by Tully; and Champion Hill: Decisive Battle for Vicksburg, by Timothy B. Smith. Part World War II, part true crime, part detective work, part archaeology. I literally could not put it down.

Two elements stand out in making Fatal Crossroads a must-read.

First, the book is the culmination of some two decades of investigation by Parker, who is an authority on the Battle of the Bulge in general. Two decades of pouring over transcripts of the interviews and criminal trials related to the massacre, as well as his own interviews of witnesses. You can see the results in the extensive endnotes, which I strongly advise checking out as the narrative is read.

I cannot do justice to Parker's research in this single post, so let me just give a taste of it. In Fatal Crossroads, Parker identifies (almost) every soldier who died on the field at Baugnez and shows the location of the bodies on a map. Parker also identifies every single German vehicle involved in the massacre and shows the positions of the vehicles at the time of the shooting. He identifies the crews and officers involved. This is an investigative tour de force.

Which brings me to the second feature of Fatal Crossroads and that is the story itself.

Parker has written this book based on mountains of evidence, but also made a balanced presentation from the perspectives of both the US POWs and the SS troops. The chapters of the book generally alternate between the US and German perspectives. It is filled with eyewitness accounts from the surviving POWs as well as the SS troops. The accounts can seem to be repetitive, but though they describe the same event, they can differ wildly. Some say the first shot of the Malmédy Massacre came from a guy in a tank with a pistol. Others say it was a halftrack. Still others say it was a jeep. Some say the vehicle that tried to aim its big gun at them was a tank, others say it was a halftrack. After reaking this book, you will understand the unreliability of eyewitness testimony.

Parker has arranged these eyewitness accounts with a dramatic flair. Though you know what is going to happen, you can feel the tension build, especially among the US POWs, as little by little they realize something is seriously wrong. Why is the halftrack aiming its gun at us? Why are they mounting machine guns? Why are they loading ammunition? It is masterfully written.

At the same time, Parker also gives the perspective of these lead elements of Kampfgrüppe Peiper's attack and takes great pains to explain the conundrum they face. As Parker points out, in the SS, disobeying orders could mean execution. And their orders were to "take no prisoners" and spread terror "like a storm wind," as Peiper put it, in part as revenge for the Allied bombing of Germany. But they actually took prisoners -- there is a difference between taking no prisoners and taking prisoners only to shoot them. They are supposed to move as fast as possible, but now they are stuck with some 120 POWs (and trucks, which the vehicle-starved Germans desperately want). No one seems to know what to do with them.

Which only goes to explain the massacre, not justify it. There is no justifying what took place at the Baugnez crossroads.

It is so easy to see the letters "SS," assume "very, very bad" and leave it at that. While that is understandable and usually accurate, it is not always so (see, e.g. Wilhelm Bittrich and the 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen) and is intellectually lazy. Parker has not fallen into this trap and has instead tried to use the aforementioned mountains of evidence to find out who (if anyone) ordered the massacre and the specific orders or combat objectives that led to it.

In so doing, he has come up with findings that may surprise readers. As they should.

First, the often-villified Joachim Peiper is a far more complicated person than is generally known. He is a very tough one to figure out, full of contradictions. He was extremely intelligent, cultured and well-read, but dropped out of high school to join the thugs, brawlers, cutthroats and sadists that generally made up the SS. At one point he was the adjutant to Heinrich Himmler and a devoted Nazi, yet he never joined the Nazi Party. Peiper was one of the best panzer commanders of the war, yet he was disgusted with the Ardennes offensive and had no confidence in it. He was known for his daring panzer raids deep behind enemy lines, yet he preferred to ride in an amphibious jeep. He was personally courageous, yet he seems to have suffered a nervous breakdown toward the end of the Normandy campaign and had to be withdrawn from the front line. After the war he took "responsibility" for the Malmédy Massacre because it happened under his command, but, as Parker's research shows, he likely did not order it.

While the shadow of the (in)famous Peiper lurks over everything in Fatal Crossroads, he actually plays only a relatively minor role in it. Parker's research reveals the true undisputed villain in the Malmédy Massacre: SS Major Werner Poetschke, a tank commander who was basically Peiper's second-in-command. In a paramilitary institution already filled with thugs and brawlers, Poetschke was especially bad -- a sadist who seems to have been bipolar. Poetschke did not get along with Peiper and seemed to take delight in terrorizing civilians and even his own troops. And he encouraged such behavior among those under his command.

With that kind of reputation, it is not surprising that the order for the execution of the American POWs came from him. Poetschke appears to have given the order to "shoot them" to 1st Lieutenant Erich Rumpf, commander of the 9th SS Panzer Engineer Company. Again, in a paramilitary institution already filled with sadists and thugs, this company was considered the lowest of the low, a "disciplinary" unit filled with soldiers who were disciplinary problems, who were criminals or who just irritated the higher ups. And Rumpf was every bit the vicious sadist that Poetschke was.

Why is still not clear. This does not seem to have been planned. Parker's account indicates to me that the Malmédy Massacre was just a case of Poetschke and Rumpf indulging their sadistic tendencies under the guise of battlefield expediency. And they encouraged their men to do the same. While some troops were shocked and horrified at the order to execute the prisoners, some to the point where they refused to take part in it or left, most of the SS troops seemed to think machine gunning unarmed Americans was fun and relished in it. The first shot seems to have been fired by a very eager panzer creweman by the name of Georg Fleps, who simply could not wait to fire his pistol at the helpess Americans. To complete this sickening picture, once the machine gunning had ended, members of the 9th SS Panzer Engineer Company's "Penal Squad" went out into the field of corpses to look for anyone still alive. While they joked around and laughed, these SS troops would put a bullet into the head of anyone still breathing.

A question only incompletely answered in Fatal Crossroads is the imnvolvement of Peiper himself in the massacre. While there are witnesses to the actions of Poetschke and Rumpf, no one has come forward to say that Peiper ordered the massacre. That does not completely absolve him, however. Though most of the rumors in Kampfgrüppe Peiper attributed the massacre to Poetschke, one person did say that Peiper gave the order to Poetschke. There is also the matter of one conversation Peiper had with Poetschke at the Baugnez crossroads, the exact nature of which was never revealed. Peiper left shortly thereafter, and the sound of the machine guns could be heard from his halftrack. Between that timeline and the other deaths considered war crimes caused by Kampfgrüppe Peiper, the evidence against Peiper himself would seem to be pretty damning.

But, while Parker says that Peiper's involvement cannot be completely ruled out, he does not seem to think he had anything to do with it, and I agree. While it was known that Peiper did not want POWs on this campaign where time was of the essence, he seems to have preferred to just disarm them and leave them behind for the trailing infantry to deal with, which would have been by far the easier thing to do than killing them. In fact, he was later heard to refer to the massacre as a screw up, as something apparently unintended, at least on his part. Additionally, Peiper's conduct with the US POWs on the campaign was generally considered polite and cordial. And he strikes me as too intelligent to pull something like this. Peiper knew Germany was losing the war; it likely contributed to the apparent nervous breakdown he had toward the end of the Normandy campaign. He had no confidence in the Ardennes offensive, and rightly so. And he knew that he would be called to account for whatever crimes he committed. I can't see him being so stupid as to do something like this.

(Although he was stupid enough to, after the war, move to France, where he was murdered by French Communists.)

Poetschke, on the other hand, sounds like the stereotypical Nazi SS thug -- arrogant, unbalanced, violent, not particularly bright. For every one brilliant tank commander Joachim Peiper or Michel Wittman in the Waffen SS, there were a thousand neanderthals like Werner Poetschke or Erich Rumpf. I can see Peiper trying to speed along in his single-minded, vain attempt to reach the Meuse, leaving Poetschke to take care of everything behind. And Poetschke, as is typical of organizations founded in violence, having been encouraged to act out on his sadistic tendencies, just took the opportunity to do so and relished in it.

In any event, you can see how moved I was by Fatal Crossroads in writing this incredibly long post. During a time when we are losing the last of our World War II veterans to the Big Guy Upstairs, Danny S. Parker has taken this chance to memorialize the very names of the troops of Battery B of the US Army's 285th Field Artillery Observation Battalion, who gave their lives not in combat but in a needless slaughter by a vicious, sadistic enemy. For my decades of studying World War II, I had certainly not paid much attention to the Malmédy Massacre. That was a major oversight on my part. I'm glad that Parker's fine work has allowed me to correct that.

I can't recommend Fatal Crossroads highly enough. Take a look at it, to honor the memories of those fallen troops, but also to check the evidence for yourself and see if you agree.
Posted by Jeff Cox at 1/27/2012 03:05:00 AM
http://no-boxes-allowed.blogspot.nl/201 ... roads.html

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revans618
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#22

Post by revans618 » 02 Dec 2012, 16:01

Excellent article Harro. Thanks for posting it. :D

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eindhoven
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#23

Post by eindhoven » 02 Dec 2012, 21:39

Long before Parker published his book pointing to the same men I had concluded the same research. Poetschke ordered the killings and delegated the task to Eric Rumpf who then ordered Sgt. Beutner to carry the orders out. Rumpf's unit was was guarding the PWs and had sent a runner to Poetschke who had moved on the line of advance to confirm his order. Poetschke re-iterated his order to kill them. The runner returned and Rumpf and Beutner began collecting passing vehicles including Siptrott's panzer with Georg Fleps as a gunner. Rumpf conveniently claims he was in a captured halftrack collecting food from it and also claims he was behind a building when the shooting started. Others direct that he was standing in the halftrack with Beutner below him on the ground when they began firing their MPs into the PWs followed up by shooting from the others collected for the task.

I hope to God those Americans on this forum justifying killing civilians never served in the Army I did. Justifying atrocity under Nazi theories of collaboration shows you lack the judgement to carry a weapon. Anyone who picked up a weapon to rightly fight back against the same people who were killing their countrymen wholesale, hundreds of thousands in Belgium alone before the smoke cleared were not some rabble. The W-SS were the type of so called soldier who would seperate children from parents and as one SS-Wiking Veteran put it "sadistically laugh as they cried out 'Mamma! Pappa!' before shooting them.". Whenever the Waffen-SS faced difficulty they restorted to atrocity. Part and parcel of what some authors like the Cambridge Honor Graduate Bruce Quarrie called a 'Heroic' method of fighting war.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#24

Post by David Thompson » 03 Dec 2012, 01:57

eindhoven -- You wrote:
I hope to God those Americans on this forum justifying killing civilians never served in the Army I did. Justifying atrocity under Nazi theories of collaboration shows you lack the judgement to carry a weapon. Anyone who picked up a weapon to rightly fight back against the same people who were killing their countrymen wholesale, hundreds of thousands in Belgium alone before the smoke cleared were not some rabble. The W-SS were the type of so called soldier who would seperate children from parents and as one SS-Wiking Veteran put it "sadistically laugh as they cried out 'Mamma! Pappa!' before shooting them.". Whenever the Waffen-SS faced difficulty they restorted to atrocity.
In the research sections of the forum, we're interested in sourced facts about specific events, rather than polemics. Think light, not heat, and please try to confine your posts to facts which add to the informational content of the thread. Since sourced facts speak for themselves, you can avoid commenting on other posters here as well. Our readers are looking to learn more about the topic, not members of the forum.

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eindhoven
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#25

Post by eindhoven » 03 Dec 2012, 03:33

Mr. Thompson,

For the benefit of providing sourced facts about specific events, the direct source of the Wiking veteran's quote comes from a video series titled "The Nazis: A Warning from History' in which he appeared and discussed sadism within the Waffen-SS and the killing of children. Something Harro had already posted in reference to Parkers material on Werner Poetschke and Eric Rumpf regarded within their respective units as sadists. In the context of Malmedy I can go back to Peiper's breakdown of his locations and time tables, both Peiper's pre-trial tactical debrief conducted before the hearings, the pre-trial interrogation, post trial hearings which Parker also provided in his book which aids in identifying the units and commanders responsible. That material will only be the same sources he used. We both arrived at the same conclusions.

In respect to Stavelot which was not brought up by me and is outside of the context of the Malmedy Masacre it is well established that the SS became frustrated at their inability to secure the town or discover the location of the artillery observers who were placing accurate fire on them. Another member brought up the rules of war and reprisals against civilians as justifiable. I did not.

I would be more than happy to provide sourced researched and documented examples of what happened anytime the Waffen-SS incurred difficulty in securing a location but then that would be for a seperate thread then correct? And since this one intially began on Malmedy I'll stick to it instead.

I could just post the NARA material widely available for the benefit of those who havent sourced it themselves.

In the event that I offended another member my apologies.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#26

Post by David Thompson » 03 Dec 2012, 04:36

eindhoven -- You wrote: (1)
I would be more than happy to provide sourced researched and documented examples of what happened anytime the Waffen-SS incurred difficulty in securing a location but then that would be for a seperate thread then correct?

Yes. The Waffen-SS is associated with so many incidents of war crimes that the thread would become unmanageable due to cross-discussions of one or another murder operation at multiple times and places. To avoid that kind of subject sprawl we try to discuss the incidents separately.

(2)
I could just post the NARA material widely available for the benefit of those who havent sourced it themselves.
That's just what we're looking for. I'm sure our readers would appreciate it; I know I would.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#27

Post by Retiarius » 05 Dec 2012, 23:34

I see that all users that say that this massacre really happened are from the USA. Of course they would say it on this way but to be honest it not convinces me that this massacre happened on the version they give us. Strangely some of soldiers dead were sons of senator or important person. They did movies, wrote books etc... but who here ever read about the Tragedy of Gorla, Massacre of Biscari or other small crimes (but bigger than Malmedy) they did?

Personally, I believe more in another version, that these soldiers after surrender, tried to get their weapons back. But like some previous user (the only not from USA) said, the truth nobody knows.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#28

Post by David Thompson » 06 Dec 2012, 07:13

Retiarius -- You asked:
but who here ever read about the Tragedy of Gorla, Massacre of Biscari or other small crimes (but bigger than Malmedy) they did?
:welcome: We have one or more open threads here about the massacre at Biscari, as well as numerous threads on other POW massacres, both smaller and larger than Malmedy, so anyone interested can read about them here.

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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#29

Post by BillHermann » 06 Dec 2012, 09:41

To double up on what was just posted above, many do discuss these other events, talk about the tragedy and the ethics of each event.

My question though is why is there always a vocal minority that must say the allies were bad too to prove a point. That type of argument has little weight as its like saying if you did something bad and got caught and others did something similar but did not get caught, you should not be guilty. It has been identified over and over that many allied crimes were over looked there is an argument there but the same can be said for the Germans during the hight of the war. They too rarely did anything to prosecute killings of civilians or prisoners by there own. In fact one can say the allies were far better than managing their crimes than the Germans.

As stated before there is much difference in military and state policy that encourages crimes than isolated incidents due to anger, fatigue and stress. The list could go on and on for both sides but that does not excuse the individual events or policies of organizations.

I would also like to add about the victims of Baugnez Malmedy were not infantry combat troops but an Artillery Observation Battalion. Having been in a atrillery observer group i can say that they are lightly armed and aviod combat where possible. The chances of them going for weapons after such a fast surrender is slim. They were facing an armoured unit, half tracks tanks and heavily armed men. They most probably were scared and jittery and I'm sure we would be too, as identified this probably did not help. It's a sad though to justify such a trajic event by blaming the victims. The same I guess could be said for those who want to justfy the killings of Germans POWs but as identified that's not the topic.

And yes the truth may never be known but spinning what we do know to turn the Waffen-SS into a misunderstood victim of persecution does not help the fact finding in this event.

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Harro
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Re: Malmedy Massacre

#30

Post by Harro » 06 Dec 2012, 12:29

Retiarius wrote:Strangely some of soldiers dead were sons of senator or important person.
This story is parroted by the SS appologist scene over and was invented by either Peiper himself or one of his defense councils. Peiper came up with this story about the sons of an "American senator" and a "tycoon" (see Weingartner: Crossroads of Death, page 130). He claimed Lt. William R. Perl, one of the interrogators, told him that the sons of an American senator and a business tycoon had been among the Malmédy victims and that, because of that, nobody, not even the American president, could save Peiper's live but that he could spare the lives of his subordinates "by admitting to everything". This allegedly allready happened in Zuffenhausen, seven months before Peiper was interrogated in Schwäbisch Hall.

But "strangely" nobody ever mentions the names of this senator or their sons. Can you?

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