It is too late to fight with D-3 and SM-3.lupodimare89 wrote: At hour 07.25 after 90 minutes of fire, MAS-571 was hit and commander wounded...
May be they fight with some local soviet convoy about what there is no data in soviet Chronicle.
It is too late to fight with D-3 and SM-3.lupodimare89 wrote: At hour 07.25 after 90 minutes of fire, MAS-571 was hit and commander wounded...
SHTORM has no damages. Nothing known to me for germans damages.lupodimare89 wrote:30 September 1942
Torpedo boat Storm bombed Anapa. 40 rounds.
Details about damages?
Heh, none of your dates is correct. Both DD sailed 0.30 2.10.42 and shelled Yalta "in night 2/3.10". I don't know exact hours. They expended 300 rounds both, so your 203/97 looks correct.4 October 1942 (but i've read also 1 October!)
Destroyers Soobrazitelnyi and Boikyi bombed Yalta. 3 enemy MTBs came out and were quickly rejected by Boikyi fire.
203 shells fired by Boikyi and 97 by Soobrazitelnyi. A site with old soviet stuff said that "partisans reported that a submarine was sunk at Yalta".
Now... surely no CB submarine was lost. However, checking now a book of Giorgio Giorgerini (second edition, 2002) it say that "other units, both in that occasion" (the loss of CB-5 due torpedo boat, in the text Giorgerini tell it was an "aero-navale" attack without mention if the torpedo that hit CB-5 was from aircraft or from MTB) "suffered damages, but were quickly repaired".
I think, many of them.I don't know exactly how many air raids were done on Yalta against the harbour in 1942,
Only M/S was engaged (he has 3-45-mm, 1-20-mm and 2-12.7-mm). U-boat open fire first (as seen in U.24's KTB). No damages for both sides.5 November 1942
German submarine U-24 after having missed with a torpedo, launched a third one (dud hit) and missed with a third last torpedo the minesweeper Tszcz-492 .
Then there was a gunfire battle, but it's unclear to me who was engaged (if only U-24 and the minesweeper, or others too)
Can't say anything. Chronicle say that DD's fired just against shore, not ships.1 December 1942
The famous event of Bezposhchadnyi and Boikyi with one of most worst case of misidentification. With shells and torpedoes (one by Bezposhchadnyi and 6 by Boikyi ) against what was believed to be a convoy with 2 merchants, 1 tanker, and 1 escort gunboat and actually were rocks.
The most weird aspect of the event should be that both of the destroyers did the mistake.
In Chronicle written that according to capturied romanian docs, convoy evaded fire under cover of smoke without damage.13 December 1942
Soobrazitelnyi with Tszcz-406, Tszcz-407, Tszcz-408 and Tszcz-412 hunting for enemy convoys.
The battle of Tszcz-408 and Tszcz-412 against merchants Tsar Ferdinand and Oituz, escorted by torpedo boat Smeul has according the old Soviet sources hits on a merchant and the "destroyer" (the Smeul). I've read from online Romanian articles that there is no mention to damages, just that some shells fall very close to Smeul.
There was no aerial bombing that night + german docs said that D received shell, not bomb.19 December 1942 Result:
The last bombing produced 190 shells and what seems to be the only confirmed sinking/destruction of a naval target by gunfire in Black Sea.
I've read however 2 options. On Tsushima.net was said that an ex-soviet tug known only with the letter "D" got a direct hit of 102mm and was destroyed. It could be interesting to know if there is a tonnage reported of this ship.
However i've also read that the same day (19 December 1942) was lost on Yalta also the motor guard boat
BW-04/Delfin 4 was lost on Fedosiya officially due air attack.
There was an aereial bombing at the same time of the ships bombing? Or shortly ater/before?
And what about that Delfin-4 and "D" were actually the same ship? (both start with D letter, and someone could have mixed the two ships)
(Delfin-4 had a lenght of 14,5 metres, 8 sailors and was armed with a single 7,9mm machine gun. Had botht he function of patrol and of minesweeping boat).
Confirmed on HM site. Different account of causalities: one say 11 dead, 7 saved of them 2 wia. Another say 12 dead of the 19 crew + 2 wouned (one later dead).F-334A sunk by SM-3 and D-3prototype on 1 August 1942
On HM say that on 12 August was damaged by aircraft.F-138A sunk by TK-36, TK-46, TK-56 or TK-76 on 15 August 1942
Found now on HM site nothing about of this event and the unit was lost in 1943 in medierraneanF-131A sunk by TK-114 and TK-124 on 6 October 1942
Nothing on HM, should have run aground in 1943, i've not understood well the date.F-470C run aground escaping an attack of TK-114 and TK-124 on 28 October 1942
Soviet side said that TKA's fired only two torpedoes and 10 rocket projectiles. One torpedo sunk, second missed, RP all lay overshot from target.lupodimare89 wrote:On HM say that on 12 August was damaged by aircraft.F-138A sunk by TK-36, TK-46, TK-56 or TK-76 on 15 August 1942
Nothing else until her heavy damages on 4 October by mine (not repaired)
TKA-124 claim one barge sunk in Solenoje area.Found now on HM site nothing about of this event and the unit was lost in 1943 in medierraneanF-131A sunk by TK-114 and TK-124 on 6 October 1942
29.10.42 this ferry has her middle engine broken and went to long repair. Who know maybe reason was actually stranding?Nothing on HM, should have run aground in 1943, i've not understood well the date.F-470C run aground escaping an attack of TK-114 and TK-124 on 28 October 1942
Happy birthday!lupodimare89 wrote:Wow thank you ! (a good b-day gift, today it is my bday ^^)
+10 wounded (lightly). Pipe for smoke-layer was holed and range-finder damaged too.However a little update for Baltic
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&start=15
Just found in that topic for Operation Drosselfang that T-30 got damaged too, by machine guns fire of attacking TK.
It say about 1 kia and 3 wia on an AA gun,
D-3 type has 20-mm gun.some hits on hull, and an interesting hit that penetrated a fuel tak (but empty)
I don't know if the attacking MTBs were armed with just 12.7mm or also 20mm or 25mm (i've read that this stronger weapons were put on D-3 class built from 1943).
I've ever think T-boote has no armour. May be bridge later of war, but not board and deck.I didn't know that the Elbing class armour was so thin to manage a penetration of such weapons, and the T-30 has been very lucky that the fuel tank was empty
I think there is no other place like this one.lupodimare89 wrote: If there is already another more detailed topic on tsushima.net or sowhere else (focused on Morozov list and opinion) a direct link is enaugh
FR.12 wasn't tug and wasn't bulgarian. This is german river minesweeper from 12-ships bath, named "Flussraumboot". This one hit bulgarian mine, minefield S-39 1 mile from Burgaz.L-4: (7 claims)
11/Oct/41 Bulgarian tug FR-12 (22 GTR).
Sunk on mine laid by soviet DD's SMYSHLENIY and BODRIY. Both MTB sunk after same one explosion as UNGVAR.9/Nov/41 Hungarian merchant Ungvar (961 GTR) and further loss of Romanian MTBs Viforul (37 GTR) and Vijelia (37 GTR) due explosion. (Ungvar should have struck a mine, don't know who laid it)
I can-t said who laid this mine, but definetely not L-4. All mines she laid was more to south-west from position of F.130 explosion.29Apr/42 F-130 run agrond (later repaired)
http://www.historisches-marinearchiv.de ... value=134414/May/43 F-470
This lighter was self-destroyed by germans 17.4.44 in Eupatoria.1/May/44 German barge CNR-1468 (1200 GTR) (maybe lost due air attack?)
Can't say anything beside date - it was 04/05.10.42.L-5 (2 claims)
15/Oct/42 F-138
This one M. Morozov recon as possible.17/Feb/43 F-473
Until this date L-6 laid only one barrage - near Ak-Metschet, so their mine can't sunk this vessel. This loss come from Bogatyrev's loss register, very unclear and unfamous for their numerous errors.L-6 (2 claims)
20/Jun/42 Romanian barge Danubius (550 GTR)
M. Morozov denied this claim and say that ship sunk on german ploating mine.11/Jun/43 German merchant Charlotte (1591 GTR)
M. Morozov not listed this one? Hm, there was one problem - mines was laid on deep more that MFP's draft.L-23 (1 claim)
15/Jun/43 F-121 (155 GTR)
This was civil fishing cutter, very little as you can see. Sailors from SCSH-201 holed their bottom with crowbar.ShCh-201 "destroyed/sunk" the German MFK-5701(15 GTR). I believed it was just an old claim. However i've not understood what exactly it was this MFK (patrol craft? minesweeping? or civilian use?) and how it was lost (gunfire/ramming/capture and then destruction).
I see them only as tug. But she has MG.M-31 torpedoed and sunk the Romanian tug Oltul.
All matters with turkish ships so complicated, i just not wish to go deep in them.I've found also very interesting the discussion about the claims of ShCh-214 on Turkish schooner
Sub not observed her results, only hear two explosions. Both torpedoes hit a mole.ShCh-216 7/Oct/42 forced to run aground an "unnamed Romanian minesweeper" launching 2 torpedoes. What happened? It has been attacked a civilian/military dredger and what was the real fate of the target?
Fantastic tale! L-24 10.7.42 was on repair in Poti after bomb and ramming damages 2.7.42 in Novorossijsk. First war patrol only 14.8.42. Never hear about ARCA's torpedoing.L-24 10/Jul/42 torpedo hit on Italian tanker Arca (2223 GRT). The ship was later sunk in Octobre by British submarine. I've not found data on our italian sources, but i had read that the Arca could have been hit by a torpedo. There is something of true?
Geiserich was sunk by Il-2 from 8 GShAP. A-5 attacked that day twice: first time ungar. KASSA, second time UJ.318. Both unsuccesful.A-5 12/May/44 sunk German merchant Geiserich (712 GRT) with torpedo. No mention on Morozov list, and i've found also that the 2 single attacks of A-5 during May'44 were against other 2 targets without result. There is some truth about the possible aerial damage of Geiserich and then being finished by A-5? I've not much trust however in this possibility.
What? I/m feel a little shoked. War in Europe was over at 9.5.45, but at Black sea even earlier - in aug. 1944!M-35 11/May/45 claim to have sunk a barge. There is some MFP that was lost close?
I'm only know that attack on convoy was unsuccessful. Earlier M.M. thinks that F.325 may be damaged by dude torpedo, but now he refuse this.M-111 28/Jun/43 attack on F-325 (should have be a failure)
M-111 that day just sailed from their base. Dunarea sunk by mine 06.06.43 on Danube.M-111 17/ 8/Jul/43 Romanian barge Dunarea I (505 GRT) torpedo. It was lost by air attack?
Where you get this strange claim? If little sub like type M wish to ram MFP, this may be very bad for sub.M-111 27/Nov/43 claim to have rammed a barge, what happened? it was a MFP?
You read MM's list not carefully. MFP was sunk by SCSH-215. M-117 that day was in base, not in sea.M-117 15/Nov/43 sunk German landing craft F-592 (155 GTR) what happened at real?
If torpedo hits a target, MM mentioned this.UNEXPLODED TORPEDOES: (i think that these events happened, but Morozov probably didn't put them in list because the hit caused none to very minor damage due impact. I'm however interested to now if and when these kind of damage occurred).
Sub was on base that day.ShCh-213 Turkish merchant Adam ( 1158 GRT) hit on 3/Feb/42 by unexploded torpedo that caused minor damage (that was wrote in the tsushima.net topic i've linked before).
M-33 fired one torpedo and it missed. What damages? I have report about this attack translated to german. It say: torpedo patch goes ?0 m after our stern. First digit unclear but nevermind, there was no hit.M-33 20/Aug/41 missed the romanian submarine Delfinul (650 GTR) however one torpedo while running over submarine caused very minor damage by impact on hull (repair in a week) someone else mention it?
ADELHEID was the name. This was river tanker with little draft, so torpedo goes under them. She just knock on bottom lightly when she pass through. And go furter to other traverse. No damage.M-111 18/Jul/43 hit German tanker Adelhayd (444 GTR) by unexploded torpedo. Confirmed minor impact damage?
This time LOLA was used as transport ship. I know about hit, but not about damage. Must be without them.M-35 27/Oct/41 hit German submarine-chaser UJ-117 Lola by unexploded torpedo
UJ.101 was damaged that day but not from torpedo hit. Soviet A-20 make two near miss and strafed her.23/Nov/43 hit German submarine-chaser UJ-101 by unexploded torpedo
Again a strange claim. M-117 arrived at her base 24.6.43 and not sailed again til 16.7.43M-117 27/Jun/43 could have hit with unexploded torpedo F-139
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lupodimare89 wrote: If there is already another more detailed topic on tsushima.net or sowhere else (focused on Morozov list and opinion) a direct link is enaugh
I think there is no other place like this one.
That's interesting, first or later i will try to face the issue of soviet warships and minelaying results. I've found almost nothing on english online.. (just to know, there is a topic on tsushima.net? I mean, if someone tried to make a list of all ships sunk by Soviet mines laid by destroyers, minelayers, minesweepers, MO class, ecc... and by which ship/s )9/Nov/41 Hungarian merchant Ungvar (961 GTR) and further loss of Romanian MTBs Viforul (37 GTR) and Vijelia (37 GTR) due explosion. (Ungvar should have struck a mine, don't know who laid it)
Sunk on mine laid by soviet DD's SMYSHLENIY and BODRIY. Both MTB sunk after same one explosion as UNGVAR.
Interesting, because at this point these should be the only two possible victories for L-5.L-5 (2 claims)
15/Oct/42 F-138
Can't say anything beside date - it was 04/05.10.42.
17/Feb/43 F-473
This one M. Morozov recon as possible.
Yes, it's not on the list. Probably because of that.L-23 (1 claim)
15/Jun/43 F-121 (155 GTR)
M. Morozov not listed this one? Hm, there was one problem - mines was laid on deep more that MFP's draft.
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/romania/ro_es_oltul.htmM-31 torpedoed and sunk the Romanian tug Oltul. I see them only as tug. But she has MG.
Yeah i know it was weird, moreover nothing came out after talks with other italian about the ArcaFantastic tale! L-24 10.7.42 was on repair in Poti after bomb and ramming damages 2.7.42 in Novorossijsk. First war patrol only 14.8.42. Never hear about ARCA's torpedoing.
Sorry! Again mistake of 45 rather then 44, i've made a check.. should have done a double check.What? I/m feel a little shoked. War in Europe was over at 9.5.45, but at Black sea even earlier - in aug. 1944!
If you about 1944, she attacked german MFP-convoy "Tanne". MFP see explosion and counter-attacked. No hits.
Probably old tales on random sites (as the second one on F-139) , sadly i've much materials spread on different files and for 90% it was before i started to write the link of the original source close the entry/event.Where you get this strange claim? If little sub like type M wish to ram MFP, this may be very bad for sub.
But in reality M-111 was in Tuapse that day. Sailed only 29.11.43.
Ok, that time it was because i've had on another list the MFP as victim of M-117 and i've not noticed that the number was the same when i checked the two files (one with Morozov's list and one with all the others). Thanks for clarification.You read MM's list not carefully. MFP was sunk by SCSH-215. M-117 that day was in base, not in sea.
Sorry.... that was another mistake by me but because of english/non english day/month issue <.<ShCh-213 Turkish merchant Adam ( 1158 GRT) hit on 3/Feb/42 by unexploded torpedo that caused minor damage (that was wrote in the tsushima.net topic i've linked before).
Sub was on base that day.
In any way, full and most precise list of all real victories at every time has only MM. In Russia noone have such big set of various german documents in which losses desribed. All others may only gather data from MM's works and put it togheter.lupodimare89 wrote: Ok, it's that sometimes a topic may have different contents. That one for exemple is named for Soviet ships sunk by German submarines, but in the comments Morozov wrote also his list for Soviet victories.
I'm almost sure that you can't find correct list even in books. It is hard work to calculate minefield's position and places of sunken ships to reveal who was winner. There is some data there and here, but not full, not 100% correct.That's interesting, first or later i will try to face the issue of soviet warships and minelaying results. I've found almost nothing on english online.. (just to know, there is a topic on tsushima.net? I mean, if someone tried to make a list of all ships sunk by Soviet mines laid by destroyers, minelayers, minesweepers, MO class, ecc... and by which ship/s )
I have one scan from rumanian book of WWII (some kind of official Chronicle). It said that OLTUL was transport tug (requisitioned and armed for Navy tug). No words about minesweeping or sub-chasing.http://www.navypedia.org/ships/romania/ro_es_oltul.htm
It wasn't that ship? Or it was a sister/twin?
http://www.geocities.ws/dangrecu/VaseArm.html#dragoare
Here however is listed among "marittime transport tugs". With 2x20mm and depth charges.
I've read also about another author, Platonov, that should be too good material.(i've read his name mentioned often close to Morozov). He too is active online?In any way, full and most precise list of all real victories at every time has only MM. In Russia noone have such big set of various german documents in which losses desribed. All others may only gather data from MM's works and put it togheter.
As i suspected... well, but i think that at least one could focus on the main ones. But we will see later...I'm almost sure that you can't find correct list even in books. It is hard work to calculate minefield's position and places of sunken ships to reveal who was winner. There is some data there and here, but not full, not 100% correct.