Unknow gun

Discussions on the fortifications, artillery, & rockets used by the Axis forces.
Clive Mortimore
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Re: Unknow gun

#16

Post by Clive Mortimore » 01 Sep 2012, 14:57

Hi Sturm and Emmanuel

I do not think it a Belgian gun but a German one. The photo looks like it could be early Third Reich or even Reichswehr by the lack of the national eagle on the tunic of the gunner facing the camera and the camouflage pattern painted on the gun. The Belgian guns seem to have a collar on the muzzle which I have not seen on the German ones. Could this collar be an indication that the gun is a 75mm not 8.8 cm?

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

#17

Post by Manuferey » 01 Sep 2012, 21:04

Thanks Clive. I forgot that the Germans would have been allowed to keep 8,8 m K-Flak guns after WW1. :oops:

Emmanuel


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Re: Unknow gun

#18

Post by jopaerya » 31 Oct 2012, 21:08

Here a Belgian one from 1939 , picture is from geheugen van Nederland site
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belgiam X.jpg

Clive Mortimore
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Re: Unknow gun

#19

Post by Clive Mortimore » 31 Oct 2012, 22:03

jopaerya wrote:Here a Belgian one from 1939 , picture is from geheugen van Nederland site
Hi Jos

A copy of that photo was the reason I started this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1739111 asking if they were relined to 75mm?

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Re: Unknow gun

#20

Post by Manuferey » 01 Nov 2012, 00:07

Here is another press photo from October 1939 of the same gun and crew as on Jos’ picture. I had posted it in two other threads related to the same subject but the link does not seem to work any more. So, I post it here again:

Image

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Re: Unknow gun

#21

Post by jopaerya » 01 Nov 2012, 11:48

Yes Emmanuel

I could not find that picture in any thread .

Regards Jos

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Re: Unknow gun

#22

Post by jopaerya » 07 Feb 2013, 21:20

Hello All

This looks like the same gun , the wooden shelter has wheels so maybe it could be used as camouflage ??

Photo = Ebay

Regards Jos
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10.5 cm uitzoeken flak 2.jpg

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

#23

Post by Manuferey » 08 Feb 2013, 00:01

Jos,

It looks like a regular 8,8 cm K-Flak Krupp to me. The Belgian guns seem to have an added muzzle.

Do you know if it is a WW1 or Interwar picture?

Emmanuel

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Re: Unknow gun

#24

Post by Sturm78 » 30 Sep 2013, 19:30

Hi all,

Looking at the photos of this thread, it seems that there are two versions of the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 Krupp. :?

The original version of the First World War, which has two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position.

However, some photos show the gun with a cruciform mount much like the 8.8cm Flak 18 with folding side arms longer and of a different design.
It also seems to have removed the transport axes in shooting position.

:idea: Conclusion: It seems that the German Army modernized some / all of these pieces in the '30s.

Two more images from EBay dated in 1928
Sturm78
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8.8cm Flak Geschütz of Reichswehr. Jüterbog, 1928.jpg
Geschütz of Reichswehr. Jüterbog, 1928.jpg

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Manuferey
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Re: Unknow gun

#25

Post by Manuferey » 03 Oct 2013, 23:09

Sturm78,

The reverse side of one the two pictures you posted refers to a 10,5 cm Flak in a fort, as seen on the ebay auction. I think it applies to your first picture as it would then show a 10,5 cm Flak (ortfest).

See pictures in earlier posts of this thread:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &p=1695788

There are also pictures of the 8,8 cm K-Flak (or is it actually 10,5 cm?) in WW2 on Flak 18 mountings.

Emmanuel

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Re: Unknow gun

#26

Post by Sturm78 » 06 Oct 2013, 13:38

Hi Emmanuel,

How is possible to differenciate between the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 and 10.5cm Flak M1917 (orfest) Krupp guns ??? :? :?
Or is it imposible?? :cry:

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Re: Unknow gun

#27

Post by Manuferey » 06 Oct 2013, 14:38

Besides the fact that WW1 8,8 cm K-Flak guns were mounted on trailers and the WW1 10,5 cm (ortfest) were not, I haven't been able to find any other visible difference so far. :cry: But the number of pictures of 10,5 cm (ortfest) I have seen is quite limited.

Emmanuel

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Re: Unknow gun

#28

Post by Sturm78 » 09 Oct 2013, 11:26

Hi Emmanuel,

I have thought of another possibility :idea: .
Maybe, the guns with two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position, would be 8.8cm Flak M1917

and the guns updated with the 8.8cm Flak 18 cruciform mount would be 10.5cm Flak (orfest) ex-static guns, modernized to become mobiles guns.

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Re: Unknow gun

#29

Post by Manuferey » 10 Oct 2013, 00:37

Sturm78,

The same possibility crossed my mind too.

If it is the case, I think that the Germans would made the transformation early in the war. At the end of the war, they mounted static 8,8 cm Flak 37 on « Behelfslafette ». So, I don’t think they would have spared mobile 8,8 cm Flak mounts for the WW1 10,5 cm (ortfest) if they did not have enough for the static Flak 37. :?

On the previous page, Jos posted two pictures of this gun on a Flak 18 cruciform mount and identified the gun as a 10,5 cm Flak Krupp. Shells are visible. So, one may be able to differentiate the 88 mm vs. 105 mm Flak ammunition.

Emmanuel

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Re: Unknow gun

#30

Post by Manuferey » 10 Oct 2013, 00:50

From a recent ebay.de auction, here are two pictures of a 10,5 cm Flak (ortfest) 1917 Krupp in in Swinemünde in April 1928, thus remaining after WW1 and used by the Reichswehr. These pictures give us a better idea of the size of the gun compared to the first picture of this thread. Shells are also visible in the top picture.

Image

Image

Emmanuel

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