Unknow gun
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Re: Unknow gun
Hi Sturm and Emmanuel
I do not think it a Belgian gun but a German one. The photo looks like it could be early Third Reich or even Reichswehr by the lack of the national eagle on the tunic of the gunner facing the camera and the camouflage pattern painted on the gun. The Belgian guns seem to have a collar on the muzzle which I have not seen on the German ones. Could this collar be an indication that the gun is a 75mm not 8.8 cm?
Clive
I do not think it a Belgian gun but a German one. The photo looks like it could be early Third Reich or even Reichswehr by the lack of the national eagle on the tunic of the gunner facing the camera and the camouflage pattern painted on the gun. The Belgian guns seem to have a collar on the muzzle which I have not seen on the German ones. Could this collar be an indication that the gun is a 75mm not 8.8 cm?
Clive
Clive
Re: Unknow gun
Thanks Clive. I forgot that the Germans would have been allowed to keep 8,8 m K-Flak guns after WW1.
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
Here a Belgian one from 1939 , picture is from geheugen van Nederland site
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Re: Unknow gun
Hi Josjopaerya wrote:Here a Belgian one from 1939 , picture is from geheugen van Nederland site
A copy of that photo was the reason I started this thread http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1739111 asking if they were relined to 75mm?
Clive
Clive
Re: Unknow gun
Here is another press photo from October 1939 of the same gun and crew as on Jos’ picture. I had posted it in two other threads related to the same subject but the link does not seem to work any more. So, I post it here again:
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
Yes Emmanuel
I could not find that picture in any thread .
Regards Jos
I could not find that picture in any thread .
Regards Jos
Re: Unknow gun
Hello All
This looks like the same gun , the wooden shelter has wheels so maybe it could be used as camouflage ??
Photo = Ebay
Regards Jos
This looks like the same gun , the wooden shelter has wheels so maybe it could be used as camouflage ??
Photo = Ebay
Regards Jos
Re: Unknow gun
Jos,
It looks like a regular 8,8 cm K-Flak Krupp to me. The Belgian guns seem to have an added muzzle.
Do you know if it is a WW1 or Interwar picture?
Emmanuel
It looks like a regular 8,8 cm K-Flak Krupp to me. The Belgian guns seem to have an added muzzle.
Do you know if it is a WW1 or Interwar picture?
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
Hi all,
Looking at the photos of this thread, it seems that there are two versions of the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 Krupp.
The original version of the First World War, which has two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position.
However, some photos show the gun with a cruciform mount much like the 8.8cm Flak 18 with folding side arms longer and of a different design.
It also seems to have removed the transport axes in shooting position.
Conclusion: It seems that the German Army modernized some / all of these pieces in the '30s.
Two more images from EBay dated in 1928
Sturm78
Looking at the photos of this thread, it seems that there are two versions of the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 Krupp.
The original version of the First World War, which has two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position.
However, some photos show the gun with a cruciform mount much like the 8.8cm Flak 18 with folding side arms longer and of a different design.
It also seems to have removed the transport axes in shooting position.
Conclusion: It seems that the German Army modernized some / all of these pieces in the '30s.
Two more images from EBay dated in 1928
Sturm78
Re: Unknow gun
Sturm78,
The reverse side of one the two pictures you posted refers to a 10,5 cm Flak in a fort, as seen on the ebay auction. I think it applies to your first picture as it would then show a 10,5 cm Flak (ortfest).
See pictures in earlier posts of this thread:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &p=1695788
There are also pictures of the 8,8 cm K-Flak (or is it actually 10,5 cm?) in WW2 on Flak 18 mountings.
Emmanuel
The reverse side of one the two pictures you posted refers to a 10,5 cm Flak in a fort, as seen on the ebay auction. I think it applies to your first picture as it would then show a 10,5 cm Flak (ortfest).
See pictures in earlier posts of this thread:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &p=1695788
There are also pictures of the 8,8 cm K-Flak (or is it actually 10,5 cm?) in WW2 on Flak 18 mountings.
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
Hi Emmanuel,
How is possible to differenciate between the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 and 10.5cm Flak M1917 (orfest) Krupp guns ???
Or is it imposible??
Sturm78
How is possible to differenciate between the 8.8cm K-Flak M1917 and 10.5cm Flak M1917 (orfest) Krupp guns ???
Or is it imposible??
Sturm78
Re: Unknow gun
Besides the fact that WW1 8,8 cm K-Flak guns were mounted on trailers and the WW1 10,5 cm (ortfest) were not, I haven't been able to find any other visible difference so far. But the number of pictures of 10,5 cm (ortfest) I have seen is quite limited.
Emmanuel
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
Hi Emmanuel,
I have thought of another possibility .
Maybe, the guns with two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position, would be 8.8cm Flak M1917
and the guns updated with the 8.8cm Flak 18 cruciform mount would be 10.5cm Flak (orfest) ex-static guns, modernized to become mobiles guns.
Sturm78
I have thought of another possibility .
Maybe, the guns with two folding side arms to stabilize the gun during firing, and two axles of wheels for transport that seems not to dismount in fire position, would be 8.8cm Flak M1917
and the guns updated with the 8.8cm Flak 18 cruciform mount would be 10.5cm Flak (orfest) ex-static guns, modernized to become mobiles guns.
Sturm78
Re: Unknow gun
Sturm78,
The same possibility crossed my mind too.
If it is the case, I think that the Germans would made the transformation early in the war. At the end of the war, they mounted static 8,8 cm Flak 37 on « Behelfslafette ». So, I don’t think they would have spared mobile 8,8 cm Flak mounts for the WW1 10,5 cm (ortfest) if they did not have enough for the static Flak 37.
On the previous page, Jos posted two pictures of this gun on a Flak 18 cruciform mount and identified the gun as a 10,5 cm Flak Krupp. Shells are visible. So, one may be able to differentiate the 88 mm vs. 105 mm Flak ammunition.
Emmanuel
The same possibility crossed my mind too.
If it is the case, I think that the Germans would made the transformation early in the war. At the end of the war, they mounted static 8,8 cm Flak 37 on « Behelfslafette ». So, I don’t think they would have spared mobile 8,8 cm Flak mounts for the WW1 10,5 cm (ortfest) if they did not have enough for the static Flak 37.
On the previous page, Jos posted two pictures of this gun on a Flak 18 cruciform mount and identified the gun as a 10,5 cm Flak Krupp. Shells are visible. So, one may be able to differentiate the 88 mm vs. 105 mm Flak ammunition.
Emmanuel
Re: Unknow gun
From a recent ebay.de auction, here are two pictures of a 10,5 cm Flak (ortfest) 1917 Krupp in in Swinemünde in April 1928, thus remaining after WW1 and used by the Reichswehr. These pictures give us a better idea of the size of the gun compared to the first picture of this thread. Shells are also visible in the top picture.
Emmanuel
Emmanuel