Need all your help on German Flak!

[Erik E]

Hallo!

In order to supply the ''Third reich factbook" with a (hopefully) good article about all German anti-aircraft cannons used in ww2, I have opened this thread for those who wants to participate.

You don`t have to write pages of history, but maybe a little on the background and of course technical data`s.(Please no "copy & paste" or links to other sites)

It would also be great to add photos of each weapon, but then again, only your own, which can be used at http://www.Skalman.nu.

In the beginning, I would only like to see German weapons, and we`ll see about the captured equipment at a later stage........

I think 2cm would be a good start, so please search your books for info on:

2 cm Flak 30, 38 & "Vierling"
3 cm Flak 103/38
3,7 cm Flak 18, 36/37, 43 & "Zwilling"
5 cm Flak 41
5,5 cm Flak 58
8,8 cm Flak 18, 36, 37, 41
10,5 cm Flak 38/39
12,8 cm Flak 40/45

And all those I don`t know

[Robert Hurst]

Hi Erik

2cm Flugabwehrkanone 30

2cm Flak 30

This was a Rheinmetall design developed at Solothurn during the late 1920s and early 1930s, and it entered production in 1934 for the German Navy. In 1935 it was taken into use by the Luftwaffe as a field-service anti-aircraft weapon. The Flak 30 had a box magazine and was recoil operated: it was really litle more than an overgrown machine gun firing from an open bolt, which is just what it was - an enlarged Solothurn MG 30. Two triggers were used; the left trigger gave automatic fire and the right gave single shots.

The mounting was a highly mobile trailer (the Sonderanhanger 51) that could be towed by almost any vehicle. Upon this trailer fitted the mounting proper; this could be removed simply by withdrawing a shackle pin, tipping the trailer to disengage two anchoring lugs, and pulling it clear to leave the mounting on the ground. It could then be levelled by the three adjustable feet, the gunlayer climbed into the seat and the gun was ready for action. It could also, in emergency be fired from the trailer.

The sight originally fitted was known as the Flakvisier 35, a reflecting mirror sight with an integral mechanical course-and-speed calculator. Although it was an excellent sight, it demanded a high quality of manufacture, maintenance and operation: things not always forthcoming during a war. In 1941 the Flakvisier 35 was replaced by the Linealvisier 21, a simple open course-and-speed sight stamped out of sheet metal and clamped to the gun's sight bar. Later still it was replaced by the Schwebekreisvisier 20, a 'cart-wheel' open sight.

Although some Flak 30 guns remained in service throughout the war, most were replaced by the Flak 38.

Data

Calibre: 20 mm (0.79 in).
Length of gun: 2,300 mm (90.55 in).
Length of bore: 1,300 mm (51.18 in).
Rifling: 8 grooves, right-hand uniform twist, 1/36.
Breech mechanism: Recoil-operated bolt, percussion fired.
Traverse: 360 degrees on the platform, 40 degrees on the trailer.
Elevation: - 12 degrees to + 90 degrees.
Weight in action: 483 kg (1,065 lb).
Rate of fire (cyclic): 280 rpm.
Rate of fire (practical): 120 rpm.

Performance (With Flakvisier 35):

Target speed: 25 km/h (16 mph) to 435 km/h (270 mph).
Effective ceiling: 299 m (981 ft) to 2,000 m (6,562 ft).
Ground range: 2,965 m (2,947 yds).

Performance (with Linealvisier 21):

Target speed: 38 km/h (16 mph) to 540 km/h (336 mph).
Effective ceiling: 100 m (328 ft) to 1,645 m (5,397 ft).
Ground range: 1,600 m (1,750 yds).

Ammunition:

Fixed rounds: cartridge case length 137 mm (5.39 in).

1. 2 cm Patr Sprgr L'spur: fuzed AZ 5045, complete round weight 305 gm (10.76 oz).
A high explosive shell with self-destroying tracer; velocity 900 mps (2,953 fps).
2. 2 cm Sprgr L'spur mit Warmeubertragung: fuzed AZ 5054, weight 300 gm (10.6 oz).
As above, but the self-destruction element was initiated by heat transfer from the tracer through a steel diaphragm instead of by direct flame contact. Thhis was a safer system, insuring against faulty tracer fillings that gave premature bursts.
3. 2 cm Br Sprgr Patr L'spur W: fuzed AZ5045, weight 291 gm (10.26 oz).
As 2 but with an explosive/incendiary filling.
4. 2 cm Br Sprgr Patr vk L'spur: fuzed Kpf Z Zerl Fg.
As 3 but with a short-burning tracer and with self-destruction achieved by a spin decay unit in the fuze.
5. 2 cm Br Sprgr Patr o L'spur: fuzed Kpf Z Zerl Fg.
As 4 but without tracer.
6. 2 cm Br Sprgr Patr vk L'spur W: fuzed AZ 1504.
As 4 but with a heat relay self-destroying tracer.
7. 2 cm Pzgr Patr L'spur m Zerlegung.
An armour-piercing/high explosive/incendiary shell with a heat realy self-destroying tracer and no fuze; the velocity of this round was 830 mps (2,723 fps).
8. 2 cm Pzgr Patr 40 L'spur.
An armour-piercing shot with a tungsten core; the penetration at 100 m was 40 mm at 0 degrees (1.57 in at 109 yds).
9. 2 cm Sprgr Patr L'spur (Ub).
This was an empty practice shell with a dummy tracer and a dummy fuze; the velocity was 995 mps (3,265 fps). The propelling charge was adjusted to give a specific velocity with each shell, but was about 40 gm (1.41 oz) of nitrocellulose powder.

The above text and photos were taken from German Artillery of World War Two, by Ian V Hogg.

Regards

Bob

[Erik E]

Hallo Robert!

This will do with a little rewriting (we don`t want to quote Hoggs book do we ) As well as the images.....We can not use them unless we have promission....

By writing:

I think 2cm would be a good start

I meant the article will start with 2cm guns. So just post whatever you have, everyone! It doesn`t have to be as complete as Robert`s as I will do my best to put it together afterwards.

Here is a photo, taken in "Arquebus museum" of the 2cm Flak30 and Sonderanhänger 51

[Erik E]

The "Flakzwilling" 43 was introduced shortly after the single barrelled 43 version. It consisted of two regular 3,7cm Flak 43 barrels mounted on a heavier "Sonderhanger 106" At a late stage in the war, the "Zwilling"
got a "Scwebekornvieser" sight which was better against fast aircrafts. The 3,7cm "Flak Zwilling" proved to be a very good weapon, but very few were made before the war ended.

Technical datas:

Calibre: 37mm
Lenght of gun: 3300mm
Traverse: 360 Degrees
Elevation: -8/+90 Degrees
Weight: 2800 Kg
Rate of fire (cyclic): 500 Rpm
Rate of fire )Practical): 360 Rpm
Velocity: 820 M/sec
Ceiling: 4800 M
Max ground range: 6600 M

Photo taken in WTS Koblenz:

[Erik E]

A navy type......But also worth adding.

10,5 cm SKc 32:

This Gun was originally built in 1932 for use as dual-purpose gun, but later in the war, many of them were intalled in heavy navy flak batteries. Since it was meant for ships, it was a very compact gun. In order to save space,
it was mounted in a MPL c/30D pivot, meant for the 8,8cm Flak.

Technical datas:

Calibre: 105mm
Lenght: 4740mm
Traverse: 360 degrees
Elevation: -3/+79 Degrees
Weight: 15230 Kg
Velocity: 785 M/sec
Max. range 15350 M

10,5cm SKc 32 in MPL c/30D on display at "MKB Fjell", Bergen Norway

[Erik E]

2cm Flak-Vierling 38

Production of the 2cm Flak-Vierling started in 1940. In short, it was a a quadruple mounted Flak 38.
The 4 barrels gave it a tremendous firepower.It soon became successfull, and production lastes troughout the war. It was placed on a strengthened Flak 30/38 mounting , which was renamed to "Sonderhanger 52"
The sights were modified many times during the war, and at one stage, it even had it`s own radar mounted between the barrels.


Technical datas:

Calibre: 20mm
Length: 2251mm
Traverse: 360 Degrees
Elevation: -10/+100 Degrees
Weight: 1520 Kg
Rate of fire(cyclic): 1680-1920 Rpm
Rate of fire(Practical): 700-800 Rpm


Vierling on a "Zugkraftwagen 8t" at WTS Koblenz

[Marcus]

Surely others have some info to add on the flak guns?

/Marcus

[Erik E]

In a desperate attempt to get replies, I have now opened fpor posting captured guns aswell!

And a little reminder:
You don`t have to attach photos to your messages!


Erik

[Marcus]

Putting my keyboard where my mouth is :-)

Some info from "Handbook on German Military Forces":

2cm Flak 30

This was the standard light antiaircraft gun until the introduction of the 2 cm Flak 38 and the Flakvierling 38. It is recoil operated, fed by a 20-round magazine, and may be fired either full or semiautomatic. A combined flash hider and muzzle brake is used. The carriage consists of an undercarriage levelled by three adjustable feet, and a top carriage supported on ball bearings.

Projectile weights are HE, 4,2 ounces; AP, 5,2 ounces and AP 40, 3,6 ounces

Caliber - 20 mm
Length of tube - 56,6 inches
Weight in action 1.064 pounds
Effective ceiling 3.500 feet
Maximum horizontal range - 5.230 yards
Rate of fire (practical) - 120 rounds/minutes
Muzzle velocity (HE) - 2.950 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP) - 2.625 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP30) - 3.250 feet/second
Traverse - 360°
Elevation - -12° to +90°
Traction - motor-drawn or sp
Antiaircraft sights - flakvisier 35, linealvisier 21, schwebekreisvisier 30/38

/Marcus

[David Lehmann]

Hi,

On this site I found a pretty good list of german Flak guns I think

http://www.mil-mod.de/Welcome/Photogall ... _guns.html

Of course there are photos but we have to ask if we want to use them.

I don't know several of them. Fisrt I will try to get info on the French 25 mm Hotchkiss AA gun used by the germans although it would probably be for a second part of the article. It is just for the moment the more easy for me. After that I will try to make the other captured guns or a german one.

Here is the "complete" list ... wow even 240 mm had been planned !!!

- M.G. 151 - Series
1,5 cm MG 151/15 in Drillingslafette “Flakdrilling MG 151/15”
2 cm MG 151/20 in Zwillingslafette “Flakzwilling MG 151/20”
2 cm MG 151/20 in Drillingslafette “Flakdrilling M.G. 151/20”
2 cm MG 151/20 in Vierlingslafette “Flakvierling M.G. 151/20”

- 20 mm
2 cm Flak 28 Oerlikon
2 cm Flak 30
2 cm Flak 38 “Erika”
2 cm Gebigsflak 38 “Zugspitze”
2 cm Flakzwilling 38
2 cm Flakvierling 38 “Distelfink”

- 30 mm
3 cm Flak 103/38 “Jaboschreck”
3 cm Flakzwilling 103/38
3 cm Flakvierling 103/38
3 cm Flakzwilling MK 303

- 37 mm
3,7 cm Flak 18 “Altvater”
3,7 cm Flak 36 “Westerwald”
3,7 cm Flak 43 ”Schwarzwald”
3,7 cm Flakzwilling 43
3,7 cm Flakzwilling 44
3,7 cm Flakzwilling 341

- 40 mm
4 cm Flak 28 Bofors

- 50 mm
5 cm Flak 41 Gerät 56
5 cm Flak Gerät 214 "Neckertal"

- 55 mm
5,5 cm Flak Gerät 58 “Stammgericht”
5,5 cm Flakzwilling 58 (Rh DV 3)

- 75 mm
7,5 cm Flak L/62
7,5 cm Flakzwilling L/62

- 88 mm
8,8 cm Flak 18
8,8 cm Flak 36
8,8 cm Flak 37
8,8 cm Flak 36/43
8,8 cm Flak 37/41
8,8 cm Flak 41 “Eisenerz”

- 105 mm
10,5 cm Flak 38 “Regenbogen”
10,5 cm Flak 39 “Regenbogen”
10,5 cm Flak 39/40

- 128 mm
12,8 cm Flak 39
12,8 cm Flak 40
12,8 cm Flak 45
12,8 cm Flakzwilling 40

- 150 mm
15 cm Flak Gerät 50
15 cm Flak Gerät 55
15 cm Flak Gerät 60
15 cm Flak Gerät 60F

--> “Beute-Flak” (Captured Anti-Aircraft Guns in German use)

- 20 mm
2 cm Flak “Breda” (ex Italian)

- 25 mm
2,5 cm Flak “Hotchkiss” (ex French)

--> Plans and prototypes :
20,3 cm Flak
21 cm Flak
24 cm Flak Gerät 80
24 cm Flak Gerät 85
“Hänsler”- Kanone

David

PS : I guess many foreign Flak guns are missing since Germans also used some russian guns like the 8.5cm(r) guns isn't it ?
And also 4cm Bofors and 7.5cm Puteaux although I am not sure they used this last French gun, but Germans gave several captured ones to Finland.

PS : FLAK units in Norway
http://www.nuav.net/flak.html

[Marcus]

Some more info from "Handbook on German Military Forces":

2cm Flak 38

This was operated by short-barrel recoil, and the residual pressure of gas in the barrel. Except for a higher cyclic rate of fire, it does not differ in performance from the Flak 30. This gun is also mounted on a 760-pound carriage, which may be disassembled easily into 27 loads for mountain warfare. The total weight of the gun on this light mount is 1.013 pounds. This combination is designated 2 cm Geb. Flak 38. The normal 2 cm Flak 38 gun and mount weigh 1.650 pounds traveling.

Projectile weights are HE, 4,2 ounces; AP, 5,2 ounces and AP 40, 3,6 ounces

Caliber - 20 mm
Length of tube - 56,6 inches
Weight in action 896 pounds
Effective ceiling 3.500 feet
Maximum horizontal range - 5.230 yards
Rate of fire (practical) - 180-220 rounds/minutes
Muzzle velocity (HE) - 2.950 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP) - 2.625 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP30) - 3.250 feet/second
Traverse - 360°
Elevation - -20° to +90°
Traction - motor-drawn, rr or sp
Antiaircraft soght - flakvisier 35, linealvisier 21, schwebekreisvisier 30/38



More tomorrow

/Marcus

[Mark V]

20mm German FlaK. Few separate bits of information:

- Ammunition is 20 x 138B Solothurn Lange ( http://www.geocities.com/russianammo/20mm.html#7 ) a much more powerfull cartridge than common Oerlikon used by Allied 20mm weapons. Ammo was also used in Solothurn and Lahti AT-rifles.

- Origins of mechanism of 20mm German WW2 weapons was Rheinmetalls Erhardt-cannon which was developed in closing stages of WW1, though not in time for mass-production. Development continued between wars and eventually culminated in FlaK 30 and 38 of WW2.

- All above weapons used short-recoil mechanism with pivoting locking lever. Mauser developed modified design FlaK 38 which had higher rate of fire and some pressed steel parts to simplify the production of weapons, but the basic mechanism remained the same.

- Same basic weapon as served also as tank/armoured car main gun as KwK 30 and 38. Only significant difference is the shorter lenght of barrel in tank guns. Used for example in Pzkw II, Sdkfz 222, Sdkfz 231, and Sdkfz 234/1.

- Kriegsmarine used same basic weapons in single, twin and quad mountings.

- In actual use FlaK 30 and 38 proved to be robust and reliable weapons, though in later stages of war one barreled variants were little lacking on firepower against heavily armoured ground-attack ac and ever faster and tougher fighter bombers and attack bombers. 4-barreled Vierling variant was until the end of war devastatingly effective under 1000 metres range to any adversary (also Il-2 which was by no means invulnerable to 20mm rounds).

... i'll continue another day if something worthwile comes to my mind.

Regards, Mark V

[Marcus]

Some more info from "Handbook on German Military Forces":

2 cm Flakvierling 38

This consists of four 2 cm flak 38's on a triangular-base mount with three leveling jacks. Muzzle preponderance is counteracted by an equilibrator bolted to the mount.

Projectile weights are HE, 4,2 ounces; AP, 5,2 ounces and AP 40, 3,6 ounces

Caliber - 20 mm
Length of tube - 56,6 inches
Weight in action - 1,68 tons
Effective ceiling - 3.500 feet
Maximum horizontal range - 5.230 yards
Rate of fire (practical) - 700-800 rounds/minutes
Muzzle velocity (HE) - 2.950 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP) - 2.625 feet/second
Muzzle velocity (AP30) - 3.250 feet/second
Traverse - 360°
Elevation - -10° to +100°
Traction - motor-drawn, static or sp
Antiaircraft sight - flakvisier 40, linealvisier 21, schwebekreisvisier 30/38


btw. Erik, don't forget that you can use the flak images from the gallery in the article.

/Marcus

[Marcus]

Some more info from "Handbook on German Military Forces":

3,7 cm Flak 18, 36 and 37

It has a monobloc tube, and an automatic action operated by barrel recoil and residual gas pressure. A combination muzzle brake and flash eliminator is fitted. The cruciform mount has two bogies, and screw-type leveling jacks. The 3,7 cm Flak 36 is identical ballistically with the Flak 18. It is mounted on a triangular platform on three adjustable leveling feet. Piece and mount is carried on a two-weeled trailer. Weight in action is 1,71 tons. The 3,7cm flak 37 consists of a normal 3,7cm Flak 18 on a modified carriage. Ballistically, it is identical with 3,7 cm Flak 18 and 36.

Caliber - 37 mm
Length of tube - 10 feet 8,75 inches
Weight in action - 1,93 tons
Effective ceiling - 5.000 feet
Maximum horizontal range - 7.200 yards
Rate of fire (practical) - 80 rounds/minutes
Traverse - 360°
Elevation - -5° to +85°
Traction - motor-drawn
Antiaircraft sight - flakvisier 33, 37 (for Flak 37), Schwebedornvisier


/Marcus

[Marcus]

Some more info from "Handbook on German Military Forces":

3,7 cm Flak 43

Although this gun does not differ externally from the 3,7 cm Flak 18, 36 and 37, it has a completly different, fully automatic, gas-operated action. The gun is fed by eight-round clips on a fixed loading tray in the left side. Using a fixed firing pin, it fired on the forward movement of the bolt. Of low build, the 3,7cm Flak 43 has a pedestal mount with a shield. A twin verion known as the Flakzwilling exists, with one gun mounted above the other. The guns may be fired together or independently. In action the twin verison weighs 3,08 tons.

Ammunition: HE-tracer, HE-incendiary-tracer, AP-HE. HE-incendiary, HE-projectiles

Caliber - 37 mm
Length of tube - 9 feet, 8,16 inces
Weight in action - 1,37 tons
Effective ceiling - 5.000 feet
Maximum horizontal range - 7.200 yards
Rate of fire (practical) - 150 rounds/minutes (250 theoretical)
Traverse - 360°
Elevation - -6° to +90°
Traction - static, mobile mount or SP
Antiaircraft sight - flakvisier 43, Schwebedornvisier


/Marcus