Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Kriegsmarine except those dealing with the U-Boat forces.
dpast32
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Joined: 20 Mar 2003 19:27
Location: USA

Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby dpast32 » 09 Dec 2016 20:50

Hello Folks, I can really use some help on this one !! I'm attempting to decipher the meaning of a term that's listed on an Iron Cross 2nd Class Award Document, but haven't been able make any sense of it ? Pretty much all of the EK Document's I've examined in the past tended to list the recipient's unit designation in normal German military terms & abbreviations. This particular example has all the normal information, but instead of a unit designation, it lists; " O.144661/41T ". I'm fairly certain that it refers to the man's former or present unit, but this is a new one for me ? Perhaps one of our Kriegsmarine scholars will be able to decipher this term for me ? The 'other' noted data includes; the recipient's name, rank, date of award, or date of act, & the authorizing authority. The data is as follows; Maschinenobergefreiter HEBERT GOBEL, 28 Juni 1944, Kapitän zur See, Führer der Schnellboote, along with a cursive signature. I'm sure that this EK II had an interesting story behind it, as we all know that the KM's E-Boats ( or S Boots ) were extremely active trying to disrupt the Allied Beachead operations during the post D-Day landings. But, for all I know at the moment, this man's unit may have been in the east, in the Baltic Sea area. Anyhow, it will be interesting to find out. I anyone thinks they may be able to assist me in decipher this unusual designation, I'll be deeply appreciative for their kind input. THANK YOU

Best regards, & Happy Holidays, Dom Pastore Jr. ( dpast32@aol.com )

Brian R
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002 03:56
Location: New York

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby Brian R » 10 Dec 2016 05:39

Hi Dom - The designation listed is essentially a serial number for the recipient. The 41 in 41T references the year in which he joined the Kriegsmarine.

KM EK documents are often hard to research because of this exact scenario - unlike most Heer related EK documents, unit info for the recipient is not listed. In this case, the recipient was likely a seaman type on a small attack boat during or just after the Normandy invasion. It's a great set, but the lack of detailed unit info makes it tough to nail down.

Best,
Brian
http://kleinekillpress.com/index.html

dpast32
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Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 19:27
Location: USA

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby dpast32 » 10 Dec 2016 18:50

THANK YOU Brian, ever so much for your prompt & kind reply, It is truly appreciated !! Initially, it looked like it may have been a service / serial #, but pretty mush all of the other services EK award documents had the respective unit listed where this example has only a number. I thought that perhaps it was some form of coded unit designation, with the "T" indicating maybe a Torpedo Boot or similar vessel ? Honestly, German militaria isn't my particular forte, but I felt that I just couldn't pass this one up, due to the time frame & type of unit involved. In my many years of collecting, I can't recall all that many Kreigsmarine related awards being offered on the market, so even though it's out of my comfort zone, I couldn't pass it up. My primary interest in German militaria is focused on WW2 era Polizei related ID booklets, & or documents. And even that pursuit has been very limited during the past few years. I'm sure you know how it is, you just can't collect everything, so one must limit himself to a specific area ! Again, I truly THANK YOU for your kind reply, as it has saved me from endless hours of searching the Internet, trying to dechipher the a unit number, which wasn't even a unit number to begin with !!

Best regards & Happy Holidays, Dom Pastore Jr.

dpast32
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 19:27
Location: USA

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby dpast32 » 06 Jan 2017 16:58

Hello Folks, I'm still attempting to decipher my Kriegsmarine, EK.2 award that was presented to a crewman who was serving aboard a Schnellboote during June 1944. One of the things I'm trying to determine concerns the date noted on the EK.2's certificate. The date noted is 28 JUNE 1944. What I'd like to know is; is that the date the medal was presented to the recipient, the date it was authorized for presentation, or, was it the date of the specific event / action which resulted in the decoration ? I would truly love to learn about the circumstances surrounding the action which resulted in this award, but when I initially obtained it, I didn't realize that Kriegsmarine award documents didn't list the recipient's unit data, as similar to the Heer variety. The only data noted on this particular certificate is the award type, sailor's name, rank, service #, & date. Little by little though I'm making progress, but very slowly. If anyone would be kind enough to assist me with the date question, I'd be very much appreciative. THANK YOU

Best regards, Dom Pastore Jr. ( dpast32@aol.com )

Brian R
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Posts: 103
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 03:56
Location: New York

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby Brian R » 06 Jan 2017 17:10

Hi Dom - You will see with most EK documents that the date is rarely the date the action occurred. It's typically days later, either when the Vorschlagsliste was created or the paperwork itself was processed. It is also safe to say that the date on the ward is typically not the date it was presented.

If you'd like to get a better understanding of EK documents and their awarding process, I highly recommend you buy my book...
http://kleinekillpress.com/premiere-book-release.html

Best,
Brian

dpast32
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: 20 Mar 2003 19:27
Location: USA

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby dpast32 » 06 Jan 2017 20:26

Hello Brian, I THANK YOU again, for another kind & most informative reply. This is the very 1st KM award I've ever dealt with, so I'm kind of learning as I go. For much of my collecting career I've collected stuff related to the WW1 era US 26th Yankee Division, along with some German Polizei related items. I've always had a weakness for things that can be traced back to the recipient of former serviceman. The German stuff tends to be a great deal more difficult to document though, of course to my not reading German, along with the fact that many German records were destroyed towards the end of the war. And BTW, I just had the 3 photos translated that were included with the group. They are dated from May 1941 through May 1942, all taken aboard the KM's heavy cruiser 'Prinz Eugen'. All I can deduce at this point is that this guy must have been formerly assigned to the Prinz, prior to his being transferred to an Schellboote. I did E-Mail a request for info. from the German archives, but I'm sure you know how that goes, it's hit or miss ? They have helped me out in the past though, when I requested data related to a Wehrpass I had. It was a somewhat unusual example, as it belonged to an Verwaltungspolizei, or Administrative Official, assigned to the 9th SS Polizei Regiment who was reported as MIA on 02 July 1944 in Latvia. ( Right at the beginning of the 'Russian Steamroller' through White Russian area. ) As for your EK Book, I've already added to my short list of needed pub's. From what I can recall, the only other EK documents book concerns WW1 era examples ? Well, THANKS again Brian, I'll let you know if I make any major progress.

Best, Dom

Brian R
Member
Posts: 103
Joined: 16 Jul 2002 03:56
Location: New York

Re: Seeking Meaning of Possible Unit Designation on KM EK II Award Document

Postby Brian R » 06 Jan 2017 20:46

Yes, researching award documents is really a lot of fun.

I would agree that the sailor likely transferred from Prinz Eugen.

For WWI EK documents, don't forget Chris B's awesome site.
http://www.kaiserscross.com/

Best,
Brian


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