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This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations, as well as the First and Second World Wars in general hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by day, Dan Reinbold's Das Reich and Christian Ankerstjerne's Panzerworld.

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Most inefficient armies in world history

Discussions on pre-WW1 history, both the military and non-military aspects.
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Postby Eugene (J. Baker) on 16 Oct 2004 15:18

darkheart wrote:ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)


khm? :?
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Postby Marcus Wendel on 16 Oct 2004 16:44

A post with spelling corrections and insults was removed.

/Marcus
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Postby Mark V on 16 Oct 2004 16:55

Eugene (J. Baker) wrote:
darkheart wrote:ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)


khm? :?


Yep. Have to agree - what an earth ??......

Warsaw - BoB - North Atlantic - North Africa - Monte Cassino - USSR
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Postby Musashi on 16 Oct 2004 17:00

darkheart wrote:ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)

On what is your opinon based?

Marcus Wendel,
could you track darkheart's posts to check if he hasn't been banned or if his account isn't double? 8)
Thank you.
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Postby Musashi on 16 Oct 2004 17:16

Mark V wrote:
Eugene (J. Baker) wrote:
darkheart wrote:ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)


khm? :?


Yep. Have to agree - what an earth ??......

Warsaw - BoB - North Atlantic - North Africa - Monte Cassino - USSR

Thanks Eugene and Mark V.
Don't forget about breaking Enigma code, French campaign in 1940, Berlin 1945, Narvik 1940, Mediterranean, Falaise pocket 1944, Operation "Market-Garden", liberation of Breda, Axel, Bologna and seizing main Kriegsmarine's base in Wilhelmshaven :)
Its good to know Polish Home Army delivered complete V1 rocket to the UK by a transport plane. Besides a Polish agent organised a spy net which recognised [please write more proper verb] the German defence in France up to battalion level before D-Day.
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Postby Polynikes on 16 Oct 2004 17:36

darkheart wrote:19century egyption army
ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)
the Inca's at Cortez assult


...your spelling and grammar mistakes aside, Cortez did not attack the Incas, he attacked the Aztecs.
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Postby Mark V on 16 Oct 2004 17:41

Polynikes wrote:
darkheart wrote:19century egyption army
ww2 pollish army (if they even had one, i'm sure they had)
the Inca's at Cortez assult


...your spelling and grammar mistakes aside, Cortez did not attack the Incas, he attacked the Aztecs.


Good point Polynikes :lol:

I guess we can brush that post aside as trash...
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Postby Evzonas on 20 Oct 2004 10:10

Italian Army in WW2 against Greece..... waste of good soldiers... though very brave and patriotic they lucked the motive and leadership...
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Postby Leutnant on 20 Oct 2004 10:55

Well, the Polish army didn't exactly do a great job in ww2.
It's natural for a kid that doesn't know too much about ww2 to mention the Polish army in a thread about the worst armies in history.
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Postby Vulkan on 20 Oct 2004 11:16

Musashi wrote:Don't forget about breaking Enigma code, French campaign in 1940, Berlin 1945, Narvik 1940, Mediterranean, Falaise pocket 1944, Operation "Market-Garden", liberation of Breda, Axel, Bologna and seizing main Kriegsmarine's base in Wilhelmshaven :)


These are, undoubtedly, admirable feats of arms. But notice that they were not undertaken by the Polish army as such, but rather, by polish troops incorporated in other armies such as those of Britain, US or USSR.
An army, "sensu stricto", is much more that a group of nationals fighting collectively. An army requires some basic infrastructure, organization and economic resources that Poland, as a consequence of being occupied, lacked after 1939.
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Postby Evzonas on 20 Oct 2004 11:24

Vulkan wrote:An army, "sensu stricto", is much more that a group of nationals fighting collectively.


Not always so... don't forget that from antiquity untill modern ages an army can and often consists of mercenaries... unless you don't consider the Foreign Legion an army!

Even the US army if taken literally is not an army grouped from nationals as its members have a widespread variety of nationalities cusltures etc .... and they are mercenaries.....
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Postby Vulkan on 20 Oct 2004 11:36

Evzonas wrote:
Vulkan wrote:An army, "sensu stricto", is much more that a group of nationals fighting collectively.


Not always so... don't forget that from antiquity untill modern ages an army can and often consists of mercenaries... unless you don't consider the Foreign Legion an army!

Even the US army if taken literally is not an army grouped from nationals as its members have a widespread variety of nationalities cusltures etc .... and they are mercenaries.....


I believe that you are taking my words rather too literally. I think that my point is perfectly clear with respect with what is being discussed here.
I dont think there is much point in arguing about whether mercenaries and foreign troops can build up an army, It is also quite clear and aside the thread we are talking about.
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Postby Obserwator on 20 Oct 2004 17:20

But notice that they were not undertaken by the Polish army as such, but rather, by polish troops incorporated in other armies such as those of Britain, US or USSR

Nope, you are wrong. Poland had an army that was under the command of Polish generals and Govt. in exile. Those soldiers weren't part of British or US forces but were a force on their own with their own command structutre and so on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_con ... rld_War_II
After the defeat in the 1939 campaign, the Polish government in exile immediately organised a new army in France. A mountain brigade took part in the Battle of Narvik. In 1940 two divisions (First Grenadier Division and Second Infantry Fusiliers Division) took part in the defense of France, with a motorized brigade and two infantry divisions were in the process of formation. The Polish Independent Carpathian Brigade was formed in Syria (a French protectorate at that time), where many Polish soldiers had fled from Romania. The Polish air force in France consisted of eighty-six aircraft in four squadrons with one and a half squadrons fully operational, and the rest in various stages of training.


After the fall of France, a large contingent of personnel were either interned in Switzerland or died during the fighting; nevertheless Władysław Sikorski was able to evacuate many Polish soldiers to England. In 1941, after an agreement with Stalin, the Soviets released many former Polish citizens, from which a 75,000-strong army was formed in the Middle East under General Wladyslaw Anders, (the so-called Anders' Army).

The Polish army in the west numbered in total 165,000 at the end at the 1944 - including about 20,000 in Polish air forces and 3,000 in the navy. At the end of WWII, the Polish army in the west numbered 195,000 soldiers and increased to 225,000 by July 1945, most of newcomers being released prisoners of war and from labour camps. The communist government organised its own army, the Polish People's Army, which at the end of the war numbered close to 500,000 soldiers. In addition, the Armia Krajowa ("Home Army"; abbreviated "AK"), the Polish resistance forces in Poland itself, at their peak numbered around 200,000 regular soldiers and many more conspirators and sympathizers.

Polish army units on the Eastern Front included the 1st Polish Army and the 2nd Polish Army, with 10 infantry divisions and 5 armoured brigades.
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Postby Vulkan on 20 Oct 2004 17:39

Well!, you can intrepret it as you wish. I am fully aware of the existance of all those forces, assembled in polish national units, commanded by polish generals and under the political command of the polish government-in-exile. BUT you are aware though that all those forces had not the capacity to operate autonomously as an army. They were all integrated in superior units, either british, american or russian, under the superior command of foreign generals and fully dependent on foreign logistic networks.
This is in no way a discredit. It is only logical that when a country is overrun its surviving forces operate in such a fashion.
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Postby steyr-puch on 20 Oct 2004 18:31

The worst ?

every army that has lost a war! :D :D
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