wearing of 2 SS cuff titles ?

[Larrister]

Hello

I have several photos showing soldiers wearing SS-Deutschand and SS-Schule cuff titles together. Could someone please tell me something about the SS-Schule cuff title e.g. what was it issued for.

BR
Larrister

[HPL2008]

I have several photos showing soldiers wearing SS-Deutschand and SS-Schule cuff titles together. Could someone please tell me something about the SS-Schule cuff title e.g. what was it issued for.

These cuffbands were for the two original SS officer training schools (Junkerschulen) at Bad Tölz and Braunschweig (= Brunswick).*

As for the insignia themselves:

The cuff titles' first patterns bore, respectively, the inscriptions "SS Schule Tölz" (introduced in 1934) and "SS Schule Braunschweig" (introduced in 1935) in "handwritten" Sütterlin script.

In 1936, it was decided that Sütterlin script should be exclusive to the cuff titles of the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler, thus the 2nd patterns were introduced. These were executed in Gothic script and had a hyphen added between "SS" and "Schule". (This is the pattern seen in the photograph you posted.)

September 1939 saw the introduction of a 3rd pattern, when regulations determined that "SS" was to be spelled in runic script in all printed publications and on all insignia; otherwise the 3rd patterns were identical to the 2nd patterns.

December 1939 regulations officially abolished Gothic script in favor of standard Latin script on SS insignia, so it is possible that a 4th pattern resulted; but this is unconfirmed.


As for who wore them:

Originally, these cuffbands were worn both by the personnel of the two original SS officer training schools and the officer candidates undergoing training there.
In the case of the latter, the school cuffband was worn only for the time of attachment to the school and above the candidate's divisional or regimental cuff title. (See your photograph; here, the cuff title for the "Deutschland" Regiment is worn.) Permanent personnel of the schools wore the school cuffband only.
In May 1940, the wearing of these cuffbands by the schools' permanent personnel was officially discontinued; at the same time the cuffbands were replaced by shoulder strap cyphers bearing, respectively, the letters "JS/T" and "JS/B". The cuffbands were still used by the officer candidates, although in 1943, the wearing of more than one cuffband was discontinued.

By the way: Nice photograph; I think we would all like to see the other ones you mentioned.


*) It is almost certain that no special cuffbands were authorized for the three wartime SS officer training schools in Prague, Posen-Treskau and Klagenfurt.

[Drew Maynard]

crischa, hpl2008- thanks for the tips on the 'duality' issue. yes it makes sense that alot of them did not wear the field police cufftitle as it for sure singled them out for 'extra duties' after the war.

interesting thread, thanks for the well researched informations.

[Larrister]

HPL2008, thankyou for your most informative reply. It has helped me a lot. I have another couple of questions for you. In the photo I posted the guy holds the rank of Unterscharfuhrer. Was it common for men of that rank to be sent to a SS-Schule for officer training and what rank would he have likely held after attending SS-Schule if he had passed all his exams, training, etc. Here are another two photos showing dual cuff titles being worn.

BR
Larrister

[HPL2008]

HPL2008, thankyou for your most informative reply. It has helped me a lot.

No problem, you're quite welcome - And thanks for the photos!

I have another couple of questions for you. In the photo I posted the guy holds the rank of Unterscharfuhrer.

Actually, that is not 100 % certain. There are two possibilities:

1.) This could be a regular Unterscharführer who has been found suitable for officer training after having proved himself as an NCO.

2.) He could also be a "normal" officer candidate, who, after having served and started his training as a private has by now been promoted to the special officer candidate rank of SS-Junker. This rank wore the exact same badges of rank as an Unterscharführer until - probably because it was impossible to tell the two ranks apart - a double loop of Tresse worn at the base of the shoulder boards was introduced in Feb. 1944 as an identifying feature of officer candidates. (The photo was almost certainly taken well before that year, judging from the numbered collar patch and the pattern of field blouse and boots worn.)

Was it common for men of that rank to be sent to a SS-Schule for officer training and what rank would he have likely held after attending SS-Schule if he had passed all his exams, training, etc.

Many proven NCOs were promoted to officer rank in the war years; the practice was quite common. As for exact (or even approximate) numbers, though: Sorry, can't help you there.
As far as the ranks are concerned: When an officer candidate in active service* had completed his actual officer school training and successfully passed the required exams, he was promoted to the rank of Standartenoberjunker. (A rank equivalent to Hauptscharführer and sharing the same shoulder boards, but distinguished by silver collar patch piping and officers' cap cords and belt buckle.) This was followed by a platoon leaders' course after which - if the candidate was found suitable and the necessary recommendations and paperwork had been made - promotion was made to the lowest officer rank, i.e. Untersturmführer. (equivalent to a Second Lieutenant)


*Reserve officer candidates with successfully completed training originally held the rank of "Hauptscharführer der Reserve (RFA)" [= Reserve-Führer-Anwärter], until Feb. 1944, after when they were referred to as Standartenoberjunker der Reserve.

PS - See here for the insignia worn by the rank of Standartenoberjunker:
viewtopic.php?t=51132

[Larrister]

HPL2008, once again thankyou for all the information.

Best regards
Larrister

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

One more question : In the case of an officer of the SS Feldgendarmerie ,which cuff title would be on top of the two : the feldgendarm title or the one of the division-regiment ????

[HPL2008]

One more question : In the case of an officer of the SS Feldgendarmerie ,which cuff title would be on top of the two : the feldgendarm title or the one of the division-regiment ????

The formation's cuff title was worn above the "(SS-)Feldgendarmerie" cuffband.

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

Danke Schoen !

[Ostuf Charlemagne]

Danke Schoen !

[Drew Maynard]

HPl- thanks for the great, informative post, as always, in regards to the 'junker' question, greatly appreciated.

for all- there's a fascinating pic in the thread in the reenactment section, of an ss man wearing three cufftitles- unit, kriegsberichter, and bad tolz band.

viewtopic.php?t=70492

fyi.

thanks all, nice thread.

vinland

[Drew Maynard]

HPl- thanks for the great, informative post, as always, in regards to the 'junker' question, greatly appreciated.

for all- there's a fascinating pic in the thread in the reenactment section, of an ss man wearing three cufftitles- unit, kriegsberichter, and bad tolz band.

viewtopic.php?t=70492

fyi.

thanks all, nice thread.

vinland