Berlin Panzers 1945

Discussions on the vehicles used by the Axis forces. Hosted by Christian Ankerstjerne
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Glynwed
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#61

Post by Glynwed » 22 Feb 2005, 12:09

Some 5 x PzKpfw III, 50 x PzKpfw IV, 70 x PzKpfw V „Panther“, 10 x PzKpfw VI „Tiger“, 40 x PzKpfw VI „Königstiger“. Don´t know how many were dug in. At area of Seelow were involved the units of 9.FallD, PzD "Muncheberg", 20.PzGrD and 303.ID.

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Christian W.
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#62

Post by Christian W. » 22 Feb 2005, 12:24

It´s based on my research.....
Sources, please. :)


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Christoph Awender
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#63

Post by Christoph Awender » 22 Feb 2005, 12:45

Glynwed wrote:It´s based on my research - the numbers are rounded. The basic document is report of Armour streng of 9.Armee and 3.PzArmee from 6.4. 1945.
If you have a original strength report why do you need to round the numbers then?

\Christoph

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wustesoldat
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#64

Post by wustesoldat » 22 Feb 2005, 21:45

Glynwed wrote:Some 5 x PzKpfw III, 50 x PzKpfw IV, 70 x PzKpfw V „Panther“, 10 x PzKpfw VI „Tiger“, 40 x PzKpfw VI „Königstiger“. Don´t know how many were dug in. At area of Seelow were involved the units of 9.FallD, PzD "Muncheberg", 20.PzGrD and 303.ID.

40 KingTigers?! I thought there was only 2, one out side the Reichstag and the other outside Potsdammer platz or somthing, if they had 40 KingTigers they would have won! so whats going on here?

Peter

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Christian W.
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#65

Post by Christian W. » 22 Feb 2005, 21:53

if they had 40 KingTigers they would have won
:lol: :lol:

Actually, no. 40 Tiger IIs is not enough.

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wustesoldat
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#66

Post by wustesoldat » 22 Feb 2005, 22:18

Yes but still, 40 kingtigers would ahve done ALOT of damage, jsut 2 held off for quite a while. :oops:

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Homerr
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#67

Post by Homerr » 23 Feb 2005, 01:33

Did the Tiger II's have fuel, ammo, trained crews? What was the battle readiness of these 40? Did they have the support services and vehicles? How many tanks did they oppose?

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MaisAlto
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#68

Post by MaisAlto » 23 Feb 2005, 02:44

"Did the Tiger II's have fuel, ammo, trained crews? What was the battle readiness of these 40? Did they have the support services and vehicles? How many tanks did they oppose?"

Don´t take me wrong, but reading previous posts sometimes is a good way to find answers...try page 4, for instance...
Concerning the battle readiness, fuel, ammo and so on, the topic is about the last days of a few square miles of Berlin. under siege. If you know how the story ended, that might give you some clues about yours questions...

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Homerr
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#69

Post by Homerr » 23 Feb 2005, 03:32

I was really only trying to pose the questions that Wustesoldat should have asked himself. They could have had 400 Tiger II's around the Reichstag and they still would have been up against a massive Soviet army and lost.

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#70

Post by wustesoldat » 23 Feb 2005, 06:24

Ah yes i spose your right :P Just wondering, what Main elements of the Battle of Belrin were there? eg Seelow Heights, outer suburbs, city, reichstag..

If you catch my drift :?

Peter

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Glynwed
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#71

Post by Glynwed » 23 Feb 2005, 08:28

This armour streng is "valid" for beginning of battle of Berlin - 16.4. 1945 - if we can say it like that. The numbers are rounded because the report is from 6.4. 1945 and that 10 days - many thinks can happen. I can´t say "16.4. 1945 at 13:00 there were axactly 487 panzers" bacause no-one can say it. In some sources moreover the numbers are different. And my sources? The basic one was mantioned, and the others - Le Tisier, Weidling´s memmories, internet search....and many books of soviet and others authors abouth battle of Berlin:
1945 Das Jahr der endgültigen Niederlage der faschistischen Wehrmacht, Gerhard Förster, Richard Lakowski, Berlin 1975
Artyleria rakietowa Wehrmachtu, Zygmunt Czarnotta, Zbigniew Moszumanski, Warszawa 1995
Berlin, Heinz Bergschicker, Berlin 1965
Berlin: The downfall 1945, Antony Beevor, London 2003
Bitva o Øíšský snìm, Tony Le Tissier, Brno 2003
Der zweite Weltkrieg, Heinz Bergschicker, Berlin 1987
Geschichte der Polnischen Armee, Stanislaw Gac, Leszek Grot, Wieslaw Szota, Berlin 1978
Hetzer, Vladimír Francev, Charles K. Kliment, Milan Kopecký, Praha 2001
Konìc tretìgo reicha, Vasilij Ivanoviè Èujkov, Moskva 1973
Letecká válka 1939-1945, Olaf Groehler, Praha 1981
Na ostrie glavnovo udara, Michail Jefimoviè Katukov, Moskva 1974
Nastupajet udarnaja, Georgij Gavriloviè Semjenov, Moskva 1986
Obrnìná technika 1, 2, Ivo Pejèoch, Praha 2000, 1999
Pád orlice, Robin Cross, Plzeò 1998
Panzer III, Zbigniew Borawski, Janusz Ledwoch, Warszawa 1994
Panzergrenadierdivision „Grossdeutschland“, Horst Scheibert, Texas 1987
Panzerwaffe, Marcin Bryja, Warszawa 1996
Piechota niemiecka vol. I, II, III, Marcin Bryja, Warszawa 1999, 2000
Poslední bitva, Cornelius Ryan, Praha 1993
Poslednij šturm, Fedor Daniloviè Vorobjev, Moskva 1975
Soldat, Siegfried Knappe, Praha 1995

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wustesoldat
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#72

Post by wustesoldat » 23 Feb 2005, 21:39

Ah ok, were there any HJ units fighting in Berlin (in cutal units) or were they put into the Volkssturm?

Peter

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Re: Berlin Panzers 1945

#73

Post by vinc62 » 22 Jan 2019, 19:10

Hello and happy new year to everyone !

I have found these photos of a StuG III ausf. E (no ventilator on the roof top like on ausf. F) but up-gunned with a StuK L/43, located in front of the New Chancellery.
In looking carefully, we can see the code "A15" or "A13" on the side of the StuG. Such a codification, a letter combined to a number, is a mystery to me.

My question is : which unit could belong to this StuG, given this codification ? A training unit thrown in the battle ? Or does the letter "A" refer to a defence sector of the Festung Berlin ?

After some researches, I've found these units equipped with StuG in Berlin :
11. SS-Pz.Gren.-Div Nordland ;
Sturmartillerie-Brigade 249 ;

Don't know if 18. and 20. Pz.Gren.-Divisionen, 9. FJD and Pz.-Kompanie (bo) Berlin possessed StuG at this time ...
Thank you
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Reichskanzlei arr.jpg
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bam
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Re: Berlin Panzers 1945

#74

Post by bam » 05 Feb 2019, 21:37

Regarding the number of tigers in the Battle of Berlin...these numbers are from Tigers in Combat 2... sSS.Pz.Abt.503 had 9 or 10 King Ts in the city. Muncheburg Pz.D. had some Tiger I's, a number less than the 10 they started with on the Oder. Allegedly there were 7 KT's and 5 Ts left on May 1st.
So there were just a handful of KT's & Tiger I's in Berlin, and most survived until the final 24hrs,which speaks of their invincibility even at this late stage of the war. And they were fighting in a dense urban environment, which is usually considered to be a dangerous place for tanks, which are rendered very vulnerable to infantry tank killer squads.

By this stage, the Tiger tank crews were all well experienced. Muncheburg's crews were veterans from I/29 Pz.Rgt, and some of the sSS.Pz.Abt.503 crews had racked up mega scores during the Oder fighting: Korner, Harrer & a 3rd crew had participated in an ambush of 110+ refueling soviet tanks. Harrer is credited with 25 kills, Korner with 39, possibly therefore claiming the "Most tanks killed in one action by one tank, in less than 30 minutes" record? (But I have a vague memory of a single Stug in Russia that may have killed 40-45 in one go??). Diers apparently killed "around" 30 tanks at the Reichstag on 30th April. Other Commanders participate in single battles where 64 and 70 tanks are killed on 18 & 19th April. So these tankers were pretty much all "aces". And they were Defending, and could choose their position, against the Soviet tanks who were doing probably the most dangerous thing a tank can do: advancing into a hostile urban Battlefield.

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photo-war
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Re: Berlin Panzers 1945

#75

Post by photo-war » 06 Feb 2019, 08:05

Another Berliner StuG – both images are scanned negatives, part of legacy soviet WWII photojournalist Boris Vdovenko that now selling over here. Almost all German armor photos I bought from there belong to East Prussia but this StuG has a note on envelope: Berlin, 1945. What variant of StuG Is this, any thoughts?
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1170.jpg
1160.jpg

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