What Were Worst German War Crimes in Yugoslavia?

[David Thompson]

For our readers who may not be familiar with General Boehme:

Boehme (Böhme), Franz Friedrich (1885-29.5.1947) [General der Gebirgstruppe] -- chief of staff, Austrian Army; commander, 30th Infantry Division 1940; commander, XVIII Mountain Corps Oct 1940; plenipotentiary military commander in Serbia (Bevollmächtigter Kommandierender General in Serbien); commander, 2d Panzer Army Jun-Jul 1944; commander, 20th Mountain Army (Norway) and commander, German armed forces Norway (Wehrmachtsbefehlshaber Norwegen) Jan-May 1945 [Knight's Cross 1940] {committed suicide 29 May 1947 after indictment by an American military tribunal in the "Hostage Case" (NYT 20 Feb 1948:17:4; LT 30 May 1947:3e; German Army & Genocide p. 62; German Air Force v. Russia 1942 p. 414; Nazi Conspiracy & Aggression VI, pps. 624-634 [Document 3739-PS]); ABR-H; ABR-Knights Cross; Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals vol. XI, p. 779).}

[David Thompson]

The posts on the number of deaths in WWII Yugoslavia now have a thread of their own at:

Death Toll in WWII Yugoslavia
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55457

This thread is on German warcrimes in Yugoslavia. Please keep it that way.

[Dork]

You was Croatian soldier and fought for my sorry ass! Well great for you,but fighting for our country(and dying if it has to) is obligation for every Croat so don't you think you are something special and that I will kiss your ass for that.You were fighting for your home and that's as I said your duty as Croat and citizen of this country!

And about "ustaša-cetnik" cooperation, my ancestor fought in 369 "devil" regiment in Bosnia and when someone writes such stupidity that also insults him(who was executed by partizans after the war) as well as me.So if you have proofs then show it:who exactly cooperated with četniks,where,why and when?And until someone give me such evidence I will consider that as another trash comunist propaganda against ustaša movement which lasted almoust 60 years and is continuing today in Croatia and eveywhere else!

The Ustasha - Chetnik collaboration is well known and well documented; this "forbidden love" was so open that Bishop Dujic, leader of Serbian Chetniks in Dalmatia and Lika, was treated in the Ustasha Military Hospital in Maksimir, Zagreb, in early December, 1944. Dujic was in command of 4,500 Chetniks, 1,500 Ustashas, and a handful of Germans; he was working in cohesion with the Gen. Gustav Fehn of the 264th Division. That is a FACT. It is another stain on the Ustasha movement (and also demolishes an array of Serbian propaganda myths propagated over 6 decades), and further evidence proving that neither the Ustashas nor the Partizans (the Communist leadership of ZAVNOH, that is) were representative of the wishes of over 90% of the Croatian electorate, which voted for Liberal-Democratic HSS (Croatian Peasant Party) in the pre-war elections in the Banovina Hrvatska (Croatia). If the man fought for Croatia in the 1990s, then he fought for liberal democracy and freedom: the Croatian and Western Civilizational ideal. He has as much as a right to speak as any other Croatian, civilian or soldier. BTW, this is an international board based on free speech.

Regards,

Dork, The

[Dork]

Im sorry its in Serbian but it clears a few things about this subject. Shortly, NDH gave "green light" for pass of chetnik troops through Croatia giving them food, munition and medicines.
http://www.danas.co.yu/20021126/terazije.htm

Major, that's not the only thing; they took part in various operations against the Partizans (most famous being the 1943 Neretva Valley operation). Bishop "Vojvoda" Dujic, a notorious Chetnik butcher of Croat (no matter what their politics) and anti-Fascist Croatian Serb civilians in Lika and Dalmatia, was treated in the Zagreb Ustasha Military Hospital in the Maksimir neighborhood.

[Dork]

When I was in Croatia in 1997 my Croatian friends told me about a Croatian cardinal who ordered to kill more than 1000 Serbs in a church during WW II. Could somebody give me more information about it?

.

The overwhelming majority of the Catholic Church in Croatia was actively opposing (sermons, individual saving of people, etc.) the Ustasha regime. As for the lies spewed about Cardinal Stepinac, here is a interesting website with evidence from someone who carries a little more credibility than, let's say, a Communist Commessar propagating hate and divisions:
http://mirror.veus.hr/darko/etf/jews.html
I think the personal secretary to the Chief Rabbi of Zagreb, Dr. Ameil Shromony, has more info than the average political hack.
There were priests who were consumed with rage and hatred due to 27 years of anti-Catholic, anti-Croatian, anti-Democratic tyrrany, occupation, robbery, murder, and mass jailings, as there were every day citizens, but the perpetrators of crimes were not representative of the whole people and religion. Interesting note, the Chetnik leader in Dalmatia and Lika was an Orthodox Bishop, and he was directly linked to attrocities... The Communist regime, for whatever reason, conveniently overlooked his complicity in war crimes, as well as the Serbian Orthodox Church as a whole...
Double standard? Yes.

[Dork]

For starters, the Pavelic Papers are on par in regards to credibility as, say, Storm Front, Weekly World Worker, or Jihad...

In addition, Stepinac only accepted "forced" conversions because he saw it (and spoke of it) as a way to SAVE HUMAN LIVES. Croats and non-Serbs who found their villages, towns, and cities under Chetnik occupation did not have the option of conversion, they were simply killed.
Check out this site:
http://mirror.veus.hr/darko/etf/jews.html

I think the PERSONAL SECRETARY TO THE RABBI OF ZAGREB has a little more credibility than your average communist or fascist propagandist.

BTW, Stepinac was declared an enemy of the state by the Germans, Italians, Serbs, and was considered for liquidation by the Ustasas: all due to his ANTI-NAZI and ANTI-FASCIST views. Forget the Milosevic pre-war hysterics...

[Dork]

Sorry Viratio
I should have used the figures from Tudjman who said only 30,000 or less were killed :roll:
The same man who made the statement
" I am glad my wife is neither Serb or Jew"
Should I really quote his revisionist numbers ? I don't think so.
My source for the number I gave is the ENCYCLOPAEDIA OF THE HOLOCAUST, Vol. 2.
Note that I did mention that it was an estimate.

Tudjman wrote that that many Serbs were killed in Jasenovac, between 30,000 and 60,000, and that in total, no more than 75,000 could have been killed there. THAT'S THE ACCEPTED FIGURE AND ESTIMATE (see Belgrade Victims Museum which puts it at 74,457 , Holocaust Museum puts it between 45,000 and 75,000). His figures for total Jewish losses were supportive of Raul Hildeburg's figures...
As for the infamous (mis)quote; that morsel of non-news was first spewed in Belgrade's pre-war hysterical newspapers: Tudjman was sarcastically responding to an inflamatory question posed by a Milosevic press agent at a Dubrava speech. His Jewish Ministers of Health (Hebrang) and Economics (Porges), as well as his Serbian son in law and half-Serb grandson, laughed, as did the crowd. They were laughing at the absurd question posed by the nationalist primitive, and the degenerate lengths he and his ilk were willing to go to to try and "prove" their lies and hatred... The context of the response was never mentioned in any of the newswires. BTW, read up on the 1964 Yugoslav War Reparations Census figures, as well as the Bogoljub Kocovic study, and the Zerjavic-Goldstein study of losses in WWII. They disappointed nationalists of all ethnicities, and actually stood up to scrutiny and are the base for current studies and accepted figures. To stay on the topic of German War Crimes in Yugoslavia, I would like to mention that Harald Turner issued Order No. 44/41, which was directing troops to execute Jew and Gypsy prisoners in retaliations for killings of Germans. Forget Slobo and his crew's manipulations and distortions my friend.

Regards,

Dork, The

[G. Trifkovic]

Not knowing where to post the following (there are numerous post dealing with the subject),I'll do it here:

Dok. 151
Aus dem Befehl von SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SS Carl Ritter v.Oberkamp, Kommandeur der 7. SS-Freiwilligen-Division ,,Prinz Eugen", vom 20. Juli 1943 zur Verfahrensweise bei Terroraktionen in Kroatien
(...) Ich verbiete mit sofortiger Wirkung das Erschießen von Kindern unter 14 Jahren und von Frauen, es sei denn, daß dies im Kampf geschieht. Diese Personen sind in jedem Fall zunächst der Division mit einer Meldung über die Art ihrer feindlichen Betätigung zuzuführen; nur hier darf eine Erschießung befohlen werden.
Soweit im Einzelfalle die öffentliche Aufhängung von Kommunisten angebracht erscheint, hat einer solchen Maßnahme ein ordentliches Standgericht vorauszugehen. Erhängungen sind außerhalb der Ortschaft vorzunehmen. Die Erhängten sind so zu bewachen, daß ein Fotografieren und Berühren der Leichen nicht stattfinden kann (...)
Es ist mehrfach vorgekommen, daß nicht nur einzelne Häuser, sondern ganze Ortsteile und geschlossene Ortschaften niedergebrannt und die Ortseinwohner erschossen wurden, ohne daß dazu Gründe vorhanden waren, die ein solches Verfahren gerechtfertigt hätten. Derartige Maßnahmen treiben immer neue Bevölkerungsteile in die Reihen der Partisanen und veranlassen selbst solche Bevölkerungsteile, sich den Partisanen anzuschließen, die dem bisherigen Kampf vollkommen gleichgültig oder sogar ablehnend gegenüberstanden (...)
Bei aller vom Führer befohlenen Rücksichtslosigkeit im Kampfe mit den Banden (...) ist es nicht vertretbar, wenn z. B. Häuser niedergebrannt werden, weil in ihnen nur Frauen und Kinder angetroffen werden, während sich die Männer angeblich oder wirklich bei den Partisanen befinden. Solche Maßnahmen verbieten sich schon deshalb von selbst, weil man mit einer solchen Begründung wesentliche Teile des Staates Kroatien überhaupt dem Erdboden gleichmachen könnte und sogar müßte (...)

Translation for 1.) "It is forbidden to shoot children under 14 years of age and female persons even in combat. These persons are to be escorted to the divisional HQ with the details on the type of their hostile action.Only here can the shooting be ordered..."

Source: http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/de/fulltext/30830

[G. Trifkovic]

Translation continues (emphasis are mine):

"...when the hanging of the communists seems advisable, such action must be a result of decision made by a Court-martial.
The hangings are to be made outside of the settlement. It is to be aranged that no touching or photographing the corpses takes place...
It often happened that the whole settlements were burned and all the inhabitants shot without presenting the reason which could justify such measures. Such actions continuosly make more and more people run to the partisans and cause that even those who were neutral or even disliked the partisans start joining them...
Even the recklessnes when fighting the bands ordered by the Fuehrer is not justifiable when,for example, the houses are burned because only the women and children were found inside and their men are allegedly or actually in the partisans. These measures almost prevent themselves from being put into action,because with such reasoning,one could or indeed had to destroy large parts of Croatia..."

What again did the Kumm say? :roll:

Gaius

P.S. If anyone spots any translation mistakes,please feel free to correct me.

[G. Trifkovic]

Another document concerning PE:

Dok. 148
Aus dem Schreiben von SS-Sturmbannführer Wolfgang Reinholz, stellvertretender Leiter des Einsatzkommandos 2, Sarajevo, an die Einsatzgruppe E der Sipo und des SD in Zagreb vom 15. Juli 1943 über Massenerschießungen in Kroatien
Wie durch Funk bereits vorweg gemeldet, haben Angehörige der 118. Division am 8.7.43 in Stupnidol, Prisoje und Milanovic (Bez. Gorazde) 31 Muselmanen, darunter Frauen und Kinder erschossen (...) Am 12.7.43 ereignete sich ein weiterer Vorfall, der die Erregung der muselmanischen Bevölkerung im hiesigen Raum noch steigerte. Im Laufe des 12.7. wurden in Kosutica (3no Sokolac) von Angehörigen der SS-Div. ,,Prinz Eugen"etwa 40 muselm. Männer, Frauen und Kinder angeblich als Vergeltung für Beschießung aus dem Dorf erschossen (...)
Wie weiter bekannt wurde, ist die Vergeltungsaktion auf Grund eines generellen Befehls des Kommandeurs der SS-Div. ,,Prinz Eugen", SS-Brigf. von Oberkamp, durchgeführt worden. Danach ist die Bevölkerung jedes Ortes, in dem feindselige Handlungen gegen die Waffen-SS vorkommen, zur Vergeltung zu erschießen (...)

Translation:

"From the letter of SS-StbF Wolfgang Reinholz, acting commander of EK 2,Sarajevo to the Einsatzgruppe E der SIPO/SD in Zagreb,dated July 15th 1943 concerning the mass shootings in Croatia...As already radioed,members of 118.division have on July 8th '43 shot 31 Muslims,also women and children in the villages of Stupnidol,Prisoje and Milanovic,Gorazde county...
On July 12th another occurance heightened the uproar of the local Muslims. During the day of July 12th some 40 Muslims from Kosutnica (Sokolac) were shot by members of SS-div. "Prinz Eugen".Men,women and children,reprisal for alleged firing from the village...
It's further known that the reprisal was took according to the order of SS-Brigf Oberkamp. According to this order inhabitants of every village,from which hostile actions against W-SS were taken,are to be shot...

Cheers,

Gaius

[David Thompson]

Thanks for the translations and link to those documents, rommel_gaj.

[G. Trifkovic]

I believe Oberkamp's order dated July 20th is much more clear if we have Reinholz's letter before us: two massacres not two weeks before the ordered was issued. This time "NDH loyal citizens" i.e. Muslims were shot,just like Croats were shot at Donji dolac, 25.03.1944,as related to us by our fellow member streljko1:

About war crimes of PE, here is good example: massacre at Donji dolac, 25.03.1944, during operation against Mosor partisan detachment, near the village of Donji dolac partisans attacked unit of PE, and retreated, soon after that germans entered the nearby village, ordered all peasants to gather in two bigger houses because "each peasant would get pass for free travel" and when they gathered soldiers opened fire, in the massacre 272 people, including 103 children, were killed.
http://arhiv.slobodnadalmacija.hr/20040 ... cija01.asp

During that operation more than 800 people were killed.

If they were Serbs,nobody would blink an eye,but now the NDH authorities obviously put up a protest...

Another proof of this cynical policy,kindly provided by Zlatni ljiljan:

Unfortunately, cases like these were common and usual for Germans in Yugoslavia and especially for Waffen-SS. Handschar Division committed similar atrocities, but it never was such a large number of victims like in incidents near Sinj. Order of Field Marshall Maximillian von Weichs from April 6th 1944 prescribed so-called “liquidation in combat” for every suspect civilian and such atrocities became legal. This could be reason why Otto Kumm doesn’t mention it. In Sinj case, some Germans opened some investigation, but (predictable) nobody found guilty. I know for only one case in Bosnia when SS-commander was sentenced – case of village Kosutica, where one SS-Prinz Eugen machine-gun squad killed 69 men, women and children. All victims were Muslims; some of them were relatives and family members of men who served in 13th SS Division. The reason for this massacre was dead body of one German soldiers found near village. Arthur Phleps thought that soldiers did right thing, they only acted according to Hitler’s orders, etc, but his opinion didn’t help to suspected commander, SS-Ostuf. Karl Juels. Himmler personally was very furious and Juels was expelled from SS and sent in prison (for 8 years).

:roll:

Gaius

[G. Trifkovic]

Two more atrocities in Serbia-not sure if they have been listed before:

U selu Skela kod Obrenovca 1. posavska četa Posavskog NOP odreda napala je 14.08.1941. putnički automobil 3. čete 64. rezervnog policijskog bataljona na putu za Šabac. Prilikom napada ubijeni su poručnik Ereman i 3 podoficira. Kao odmazda za izvršeni napad usledilo je 15.08.1941. paljenje 350 kuća u selu Skeli i streljanje 65 talaca. Pred streljanje su dovedena 42 zatvorenika iz koncentracionog logora na Banjici i 15 seljaka iz sela Skele. Tela streljanih su obešena. Radi zastrašivanja stanovništva, vest o odmazdi je objavljena preko radija, novina i plakata.

Translation: "In village Skela in the vicinity of Obrenovac on August 14th 1941 ,1.company of Posavski Partisan detachment ambushed a car travelling to Sabac belonging to the 3.company of the 64.res.police battalion. As a result,lt. Ehremann (spel.)
and three NCOs were killed. As a reprisal,350 houses in village Skela were burned and 65 hostages were shot,42 of which were taken from Banjica concentration camp and 15 from the village itself. Bodies of those shot were hanged. For intimidation purposes,news of the reprisal was made public using radio,newspapers and posters."

Kod železničke stanice Dražanj, na pruzi Beograd - Mala Krsna, 12.05.1943. 1. četa Kosmajskog NOP odreda ubila je iz zasede 2 i ranila jednog nemačkog vojnika 977. landesšicen bataljona. To je bio povod vojnoupravnom komandantu Srbije, generalu Paulu Baderu, da naredi za odmazdu streljanje 125 talaca. Odmazdu je izvršio štab 104. lovačke divizije 26. 05.1943. Na streljanje u Malom Požarevcu bila je sprovedena i grupa zatočenika iz Banjičkog logora. Plakat je štampan dvojezično sa saopštenjem o dogadjaju i lepljen je po Beogradu.

Translation: "In the vicinity of Drazanj railroad station,on the line Beograd-Mala Krsna,on May 12th 1943,1.company of Kosmaj Partisan detachment ambushed a part of 977.Landesschuetzen battalion,killing 2 and wounding one german soldier. Incident was used by commanding general,Serbia, Paul Bader to order the shooting of 125 hostages as a reprisal. Shooting was executed by HQ of 104. Jaeger division on May 25th,1943 in Mali Pozarevac.Also a number of hostages from Banjica camp was shot.The poster was printed in bilingual version and appeared in Belgrad."

Info taken from http://www.mgb.org.yu/

Gaius

[Zlatni ljiljan]

Vozdra Gaj,

You asked me what my source of information about Karl Juels and killings is. Well, this Juels case was mentioned in "Vorwärts Prinz Eugen", "Himmler’s Bosnian Division" and even in Zija Sulejmanpasic’s book "13. SS divizija Handzar – istine i lazi". German sourced which you quoted claims that 40 civilians were killed, but that is not correct. Massacre was described in detail in report of III Domobran Corps. The document contains names of the victims, 69 in total (and 34 children under the age of 14). This report was published in book Genocid nad Bosnjacima u Drugom svjetskom ratu (written by Smail Cekic, Sarajevo: 1996.), pp. 327-337. Report also claims that many civilians from this village were slaughtered during earlier Chetnik massacres and that village suffered heavy losses; local inhabitants thought that Germans were their friends and even protectors, but this incident caused disappointment and growth of sympathies for Partisans.

Regards,

[G. Trifkovic]

E,zemo ( )

thanks for the answer. I accept that the number of victims in the report is wrong,but we have to have in mind that it's a contemporary letter,when ,naturaly, all facts could not be known by the author. I have Sulejmanpasic's book,but don't remember the incident in question being mentioned. I emphasize "don't remember"... :roll:

Zivio drug