MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

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looma
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MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#1

Post by looma » 22 Nov 2005, 12:54

i've heard of this really fast revolver cannon in two versions, a 20mm and 30mm version
saying that its design influenced todays cannons, and was to be armed in new planes (i think the Foo-fighter or the ufo should have been armed with 6!)

need more detail :| :|

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Roddoss72
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Re: MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#2

Post by Roddoss72 » 23 Nov 2005, 05:15

looma wrote:i've heard of this really fast revolver cannon in two versions, a 20mm and 30mm version
saying that its design influenced todays cannons, and was to be armed in new planes (i think the Foo-fighter or the ufo should have been armed with 6!)

need more detail :| :|
looma i think you'll find some information on the revolver cannon in http://www.luft46.com, but i have one aircraft it was scheduled to be armed with the gun it was the Focke-Wulf Fw 500 Kugelblitz Single seat heavy rotary wing fighter (like a UFO) it was to have been armed with the Mauser Mg 213 20 mm revlover cannon six of them were to carried by the aircraft that is all i can find out about the revolver cannon, hope you find this information interesting.

Regards

Roddoss72


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ChrisMAg2
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#3

Post by ChrisMAg2 » 23 Nov 2005, 11:28

Mabuhay looma,
you will find a detailed describtion on the Mk 213 and it's successors in:
H. Schliephake, Flugzeugbewaffnung. (German book, and long time out of stock)
or
check the web for further info and pics

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MK108
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From 213 to DEFA

#4

Post by MK108 » 24 Nov 2005, 01:45

The system 213 was used for make 30 French DEFA and Aden GB, DEFA was allways in service on Mirage
see pics for 30 DEFA in center this web page
http://www.histavia21.net/ExpoBa102/gal ... ba_102.htm

Best Regards, Dan
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213Pag064.jpg
213Pag064.jpg (43.48 KiB) Viewed 6118 times

Tony Williams
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#5

Post by Tony Williams » 24 Nov 2005, 04:30

You'll also find it described in detail in Flying Guns – the Modern Era: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations since 1945 by Emmanuel Gustin and myself (I put it in the postwar rather than wartime volume because only a few prototypes were made in WW2, all the rest of its history was postwar).

Here are some extracts from the book:

"As was noted in 'Flying Guns: World War II', the Germans exercised great ingenuity in developing a wide range of different operating principles for aircraft guns, nearly all of which proved fruitless. There was one significant exception to this however; the revolver cannon. This emerged as a result of the wartime effort to produce a "million point gun"; a 20 mm cannon which could achieve 1,000 m/s muzzle velocity and fire at 1,000 rpm, both considerable improvements on weapons then in service.

Prototype "million point" designs were made using conventional linear-action mechanisms but great difficulties were experienced in forcing them up to the performance required (it must be remembered that at this late stage of the Second World War, high-quality steel was at a premium and German gun designers were forced to work with poor-quality material). The problem was solved by Anton Politzer of Mauser, who reasoned that the violent reloading action of the high-rate linear guns could be moderated by handling it in stages. This was achieved by the use of a revolving cylinder with several chambers, located behind the barrel just as in a giant "six-shooter" (although there were in fact five chambers in Politzer's model). Cartridges are inserted into their chambers, fired and the cases withdrawn as the cylinder revolves, each cartridge taking almost a complete revolution of the cylinder to go through the cycle, during which time four other shots are fired."

and:

"The million-point project was assigned the gun designation MG 213 (Maschinengewehr = machine gun). Politzer's successful design was given the third code letter assigned, and thus became the MG 213C. The cartridge had to be large to develop the required muzzle velocity and the case measured 20 x 135; it actually fired a 112 g shell at 1,050 m/s. While this was being developed, operational requirements dictated the development of a low-velocity 30 mm version in parallel; this became known as the MK 213/30 or just the MK 213 (Maschinenkanone = machine cannon); the 30 x 85 B round fired its 330 g shell at 530 m/s. Incidentally, it will be noted that Germany in the Second World War regarded 20 mm weapons as machine guns, not cannon, and surviving references to the 30 mm version of this gun sometimes describe it as the "MG 213/30"; as it was not adopted, the designation was never officially determined. The Luftwaffe wanted to use the MK 213 for bomber destroying, the MG 213C for bomber defence and for ground attack, the high-velocity 20 mm having a much longer accurate range as well as better armour penetration. Both guns (which weighed 75 kg; the 20 mm was 193 cm long, the 30 mm model 163 cm) could comfortably exceed the 1,000 rpm requirement, the 20 mm reaching 1,200 – 1,400 rpm, the 30 mm 1,100-1,200. Test aircraft installations were made, but the guns were a long way from being production-ready by the end of the war; just ten examples of the final design had been assembled.

After the war, the Mauser engineers dispersed to various western countries, who recognised the value of the new design and proceeded to develop it. Revolver cannon duly emerged in Switzerland, France, the UK and the USA during the 1950s. The French and British weapons were very closely based on the MK 213 and the first British gun in service, the Aden (for Armament Design Enfield) 3M of 1953, nowadays known as the LV or low-velocity model, even fired cartridges which were almost identical (30 x 86 B instead of 30 x 85 B, plus a wider rim, but more obviously with a brass instead of steel case)."

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

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Uninen
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#6

Post by Uninen » 25 Nov 2005, 02:56

Ive asked before about this and theres been another discussions also, cant somebody just produce a photo of real MG213? :)

Or is the one posted by "MK108" actually a one?! :o

/Edit

No its not, its a DEFA.

EPOCH3
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Re: MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#7

Post by EPOCH3 » 21 Sep 2015, 22:44

Rare photos of Maschinengewehr MG213 -

These pics were part of a First Phase report done by Ordnance guys at Aberdeen Proving Grounds. I believe many of these first phase reports were only distributed in preliminary/"draft" form and perhaps final versions were never completed. ....only a couple of years late - enjoy
Attachments
Film Negative_4521 Mg 213.jpg
Film Negative_4520 Mg 213.jpg

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Luftflotte2
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Re: MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#8

Post by Luftflotte2 » 22 Sep 2015, 06:04

Thank you EPOCH3, is there more from this report?

EPOCH3
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Re: MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#9

Post by EPOCH3 » 22 Sep 2015, 13:26

Hi - yes, I have several more - I will upload more as time permits -kind regards
Greg

ChristopherPerrien
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Re: MG213 revolver cannon, revolutionizing modern cannons

#10

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 22 Sep 2015, 18:45

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