Russian child soldiers?

[Christian W.]

...in 1944 17 old also were drafted....

The thing is, this picture was taken in 1943 during the Battle of Kursk, and those boys don't look like adults.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/ ... k_0108.htm

Seems the boy with bag in the center of picture serves as a postman

That he has a bag doesn't prove that he's a postman. He could simply be carrying stuff in it.

[Dmitry]

The thing is, this picture was taken in 1943 during the Battle of Kursk, and those boys don't look like adults.

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/ ... k_0108.htm

Good. Please look at



The sign says "Let's take Kiev". It's far from Kursk you know. Some of those pictures are probably wrongly dated. And besides 18 year old can also look as an infant.

[Christian W.]

The sign says "Let's take Kiev". It's far from Kursk you know.

And? I could swear that the Germans ect made similiar signs during the war, ("The road to Stalingrad, "This way to Moscow!") even if the place the signs were refering to were actually far from where they were.

And besides 18 year old can also look as an infant.

Certainly (in some cases).

Some of those pictures are probably wrongly dated

Perhaps, but I belive that the site also has pictures that are related to the battle (ect. Germans prepearing for it before the actual battle).

[KACKO]

You can see brigde and river. River can be Dnieper and then the picture can be easily from time of late 1943 - time when Kyev was taken. I remeber to see this picture or very similar one in Ludvik Svoboda's Z Buzuluku do Prahy (From Buzuluk to Prag).

[Kim Sung]

I remeber to see this picture or very similar one in Ludvik Svoboda's Z Buzuluku do Prahy (From Buzuluk to Prag).

Yes, this is a very famous photo.

[Andreas]

Pictures are interesting, but without anything else to them can not be considered conclusive evidence. I would not get too hung up about them.

Whether the two seated chaps are over or below 18 is impossible to say in my view from this picture. Remember also the many pictures of HJ soldiers captured in Normandy, who look younger than 18, so much that their captors were convinced that they were 16 or 17.

All the best

Andreas

[Dmitry]

I think one of the possible explanations for young looking Soviet conscripts at the end of the war was thin diet for civilians during war time. They were in fact half-starved for 2-3 years and thus their size was dissonant to their years.

[Christian W.]

their size was dissonant to their years.

This is your opinion, not a fact (unless you somehow have detailed information of over 150000000 Soviets.

[Andreas]

I would have thought that it is self-evident that undernourishment during teenage growth years will have an impact, and the results can stay with you for your life. Check Audrey Hepburn.

In any case, if there is no further info other than this picture, I suggest that this debate is quite fruitless. It is something that could benefit from some real sources. The picture Christian has posted is not giving any clue as to whether the Red Army used child soldiers on a regular basis.

All the best

Andreas

[Dmitry]

Vanya looked at it and knew that this is probably captain Enakiev, but he did not believe, no he could not believe that this was captain Enakiev. No, this was entirely another person - fixed, incomprehensible, terrible, and most of all - stranger as everything which was in the world around the boy at this minute.

Kim, your knowledge of Russian is perfect!!! Only one minor correction: "Vanya looked at it and knew for sure that this is captain Enakiev". Here, in this case navernoe=navernyaka it's rather obsolete and I suppose that even a young Russian could have some difficulties in uderstanding this phrase.

[Christian W.]

I would have thought that it is self-evident that undernourishment during teenage growth years will have an impact, and the results can stay with you for your life.

One cannot speak of entire nation. Can Dimitry really say for sure that all, tens of millions young Soviets were short and looked younger than they were?

[Steen Ammentorp]

I would have thought that it is self-evident that undernourishment during teenage growth years will have an impact, and the results can stay with you for your life.

One cannot speak of entire nation. Can Dimitry really say for sure that all, tens of millions young Soviets were short and looked younger than they were?

I don't think that Dmitry can not more at least than you can say they weren't. I think this thread is in serious need of some documentation. Otherwise it is just a few pictures and opinions.

Kind Regards
Steen Ammentorp
[url=http://www,generals.dk]The Generals of World WarII[/url]

[Yuri]

I think this thread is in serious need of some documentation. Otherwise it is just a few pictures and opinions.

C August till September, 1942 on my small native land - district Novosergievsky of the Orenburg area - 333 rifle division was formed.
On September, 29, 1942 process of rearrangement has been completed and the order on departure to a new place of a disposition has been received. Easier speaking the division has received the order to decrease on front in area Stalingrad. From record in magazine of operations 333 ÑÄ for 29/9/42 we can see, how the contingent of this division was distributed on age and nationalities.
Explanatories to the text:
KNS - it is command - commanding structure
Members VKP/b/-members of communist party
Members VLKSM - members of the youth communistic organization


CAMD RF
f. 333sd, i. 1, f. 25, s 5,6

Magazine of operations
333 Krasnoznamennaja awards Suvorov Sinel'nikovskaja rifle division
(sheets 5, 6)

1. Date and time of day: 29/9/42

2. The fighting task: Preparation for departure for a new place of a disposition

3. The description of operations:
The division under the order of the Southern - Ural Military District prepares for departure for a new place of a disposition. On service in her will consist:
Senior and average KNS (officer)..-..1019 person
Younger KNS (NCO)..-.. 2140 person
Ordinary structure (men)..-.. 7512 person
Only 10671 person, from them cadets of military schools..-..1223 person

Members and candidates VKP/b /..-.. 823;
Members VLKSM..-.. 1994;
Workers..-.. 4022;
Collective farmers..-.. 3493;
Participants GPW..-.. 1540;
Wounded in GPW..-.. 880;
Awarded with Awards..-.. 19;
Personnel KNS..-.. 561 person,
KNS from a stock..-.. 458.

Age structure:
1922-1923 of a birth..-..1427 person
From 20 till 23 years..-..1809 person
From 23 till 25 years..-..1647 person
From 25 till 30 years..-..2032 person
From 30 till 35 years..-..1559 person
From 35 till 40 years..-..1312 person
From 40 till 45 years..-.. 880
From 45 till 50 years..-.. 5

National structure:
Russian..-.. 4985
Ukraine..-.. 1371
Kazakhs..-.. 1839
Uzbeks..-.. 525
Tatars..-..446
Jews..-.. 322
Kirghiz..-.. 272
Byelorussians..-.. 186
Other nationalities..-.. 725

Arms:
Rifles and carbines..-..7188
PPD and PPSh..-.. 917
Autoloading rifles..-.. 26
Manual machine guns..-.. 200
Heavy - //-..-.. 81
Large-caliber - //-..-.. 6
ATR..-.. 228
Howitzers 122 mm..-.. 12
Guns 76 mm..-.. 32
- //-45 mm ..-.. 30
- //-37 mm ..-.. 4
Mortars 120 mm..-.. 18
- //-82 mm..-.. 85
- //-50 mm ..-.. 85
Pistols "TT"..-.. 848

Documents evidently show, that children in Red Army did not call. However it is necessary to mean always, that GPW was the phenomenon of huge scale. Clearly, that in that time there were events completely

udachi / good luck
Yuri

[Kim Sung]

Kim, your knowledge of Russian is perfect!!!

Thank you for your kind correction.

Without North Korea, I could go to Vladivostok every weekend to brush up with my Russian. I'm losing my geographical advantage because of Kim Jong-Il's bigotry.

[Juha Tompuri]

Russian soldiers did not kill grandfathers and grandmothers of children of the enemies

Soviet soldiers and partisans killed some 1000 Finnish civilians during the Winter War and about as much during the Continuation War. Those numbers included grandmothers and grandfathers.

Documents evidently show, that children in Red Army did not call.

That document shows the situation at one division during very short period of time.

Regards, Juha