A Plan to divide Korea and Japan after the War?
A Plan to divide Korea and Japan after the War?
I've found these maps in a Korean military forum. Did the allies have any plan like this?
According to this plan, the allies had their portions.
Korea :
China - Northwestern Korea
The Soviet Union - Northeastern Korea
USA - Southeastern Korea
Britain - Southwestern Korea
Japan :
China - Shikoku island
The Soviet Union - Northeastern Japan
USA - Central Japan
Britain - Western Japan
Note that Seoul and Osaka were to be comdominated by China and USA and Tokyo was to be ruled by the Joint Occupation Headquarter of four alled countries: China, the Soviet Union, Britain and USA, just like Berlin under the rule of the Soviet Union, France, Britain and USA. Isn't it interesting?
* It is also very interesting that China was to get Shikoku island as her portion.
According to this plan, the allies had their portions.
Korea :
China - Northwestern Korea
The Soviet Union - Northeastern Korea
USA - Southeastern Korea
Britain - Southwestern Korea
Japan :
China - Shikoku island
The Soviet Union - Northeastern Japan
USA - Central Japan
Britain - Western Japan
Note that Seoul and Osaka were to be comdominated by China and USA and Tokyo was to be ruled by the Joint Occupation Headquarter of four alled countries: China, the Soviet Union, Britain and USA, just like Berlin under the rule of the Soviet Union, France, Britain and USA. Isn't it interesting?
* It is also very interesting that China was to get Shikoku island as her portion.
- 13thredarmy
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- Joined: 28 Sep 2003, 16:08
- Location: Picton, New Zealand
The fact that you haven't heard of this division plan and don't have any information on my question doesn't mean that any plan like this didn't exist at all. Who knows there was any secret plan like this which didn't come true later? I just asked there was any plan like this. More feedback is needed to prove whether something like this plan existed at a certain stage of the Pacific War. I don't think a Japanese guy who made this map did it for fun.13thredarmy wrote:Complete nonsense. Hope you don't pay money for that site !
This was neither complete nonsense nor option study. This was the initial occupation plan of the allies submitted to the US Joint Chiefs of Staff on August 16, 1945.
See these links.
http://www.geocities.jp/farmizu/topics/his_divide.html
* I'll translate this later.
From Japanese Wikipedia
A Initial Plan to divide Japan
See these links.
http://www.geocities.jp/farmizu/topics/his_divide.html
スターリンが38度線設定を受諾した8月16日、アメリカ統合戦争計画委員会(JWPC)は、『日本および日本領の最終的占領』と題する試案を、統合参謀本部へ提出した。これが"幻の日本分割占領案"である。この試案は、日本の占領計画を次の三段階に分けていた。
1. 最初の3カ月
アメリカが単独で日本を占領し、朝鮮半島は米ソが南北に分割して占領する。
2.続く9カ月
日本と朝鮮半島を米英中ソの四カ国分割占領に切り替える。(右図)
東京は四ヵ国が共同占領、ソウルは米ソ二ヵ国の共同管理。
3. 期限未定
占領軍の撤退が始まると、四ヵ国共同管理委員会を設置し、朝鮮は信託統治を経て、完全独立を実現させる。
* I'll translate this later.
From Japanese Wikipedia
A Initial Plan to divide Japan
Actually Soviet army headed to Hokkaido after Kurils operation. There were several ships dispatched with infantry abroad, but on the way they got a radiogramme that the Americans already landed at Hokkaido (it was 9th US Army corps occupation zone on Hokkaido), so the Red Army turned back to mainland.
Here is a soviet map of offensive, note a red arrow heading toward Hokkaido village called Rumoi:
http://hamster02.narod.ru/170.jpg
Here is a soviet map of offensive, note a red arrow heading toward Hokkaido village called Rumoi:
http://hamster02.narod.ru/170.jpg
This was a very well known plan that didn't come true because of the political confrontation between the Soviet Union and USA. There are a lot of websites dealing with this plan.13thredarmy wrote:Complete nonsense. Hope you don't pay money for that site !
The original text of this plan is being kept in American National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).
It's not non sence. Before Yalta and Potsdam, there were a lot of fantastic political plans about how to partition Germany and Japan after war were suggested, as this interesting plan concerned about Louis Mountbatten become king of Northern Germany:13thredarmy wrote:Complete nonsense. Hope you don't pay money for that site !
http://www.andrewcusack.com/blog/2006/0 ... ermani.phpA recent post by Aelianus entitled The Two Germanies brought to mind a little-known idea which surfaced towards the end of World War II. I read in the biography of Empress Zita that a plan was hatched to divide what we now know as Germany, combining Bavaria and Austria to create a Catholic state under the restored Hapsburgs and leaving northern Germany to be a Protestant kingdom with, odd as it might perhaps seem, Lord Louis Mountbatten. Of course it's not really that odd when one considers that the real name of the Mountbatten family is Battenberg, changed to disguise their Teutonicity during the Great War when the fervor of hatred against our cousin the Hun ran willy-nilly. While Mountbatten was born in Windosr Castle and served as First Sea Lord as well as the final Viceroy of India, he was really entirely German in terms of ancestry. His parents were Prince Louis of Battenberg and Princess Victoria of Hesse and the Rhine, while Louis IV, Grand Duke of Hesse and the Rhine was his grandfather. By right, he was His Serene Highness Prince Louis of Battenberg, but cherishing their adopted country, the family were intimidated into dropping all German styles and titles in 1917.
Lord Mountbatten apparently took the proposal seriously enough that he began to brush up on his German, and informed Empress Zita, living in exile in the Dominion of Canada during the Second World War, of its prospects for both their families. Of course, with Yalta, nothing was ever to come of it and the closest Lord Mountbatten ever came to power, aside from his reign as Viceroy of India, was in 1967 when he was alledgedly asked to lead a coup overthrowing the Labour government. Mountbatten was highly reluctant, and nothing came of the plot. In 1979, while summering at his usual holiday home in the Irish Republic, Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb, along with the Dowager Lady Brabourne (aged 82), the Hon. Nicholas Knatchbull (aged 14), and Paul Maxwell (aged 15), a local boy working on the Mountbatten's boat. He was a Knight of the Garter, a Knight Grand Cross of Bath, Order of Merit, Knight Grand Cross of the Star of India, Knight Grand Cross of the Indian Empire, Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, and the Distinguished Service Order.
http://www.gatago.com/alt/talk/royalty/5904804.html
Re: A Plan to divide Korea and Japan after the War?
Imagine the "Democratic People's Republic of Japan" still staunchly holding onto its Stalinist doctrine along with their North Korean comradesKim Sung wrote: The Soviet Union - Northeastern Japan
Come to think of it, wasn't the USSR scheduled to take part in Operation Downfall, the final invasion of Japan? The Americans landing in the South and the Soviets in the North, the USSR getting its own occupied area in Japan after the war?
- 13thredarmy
- Member
- Posts: 63
- Joined: 28 Sep 2003, 16:08
- Location: Picton, New Zealand
This is not a well known plan hence the reason you asked the question in the first place.
Actually people make these things up for fun all the time (see the "What If" forum). The likely author was some Japanese right winger reminding the faithful what those nasty foreigners really had in mind for the homeland back in the day and thank god we actually won the war ....
Just because detailed plans were made for the partion of germany doesn't mean the same was done for Japan. Why would the US allow the Soviet Union any say in a war it barely participated in ? Even the eventual British/Commonwealth J-force was a token effort. And China occupying Japan ... which Chinese exactly and weren't they fully back in the business of slaughtering each other by that point ?
Again, these "plans" are nonsense. interesting but nothing more. The original question was "did the allies have any of these plans" ? No !
Actually people make these things up for fun all the time (see the "What If" forum). The likely author was some Japanese right winger reminding the faithful what those nasty foreigners really had in mind for the homeland back in the day and thank god we actually won the war ....
Just because detailed plans were made for the partion of germany doesn't mean the same was done for Japan. Why would the US allow the Soviet Union any say in a war it barely participated in ? Even the eventual British/Commonwealth J-force was a token effort. And China occupying Japan ... which Chinese exactly and weren't they fully back in the business of slaughtering each other by that point ?
Again, these "plans" are nonsense. interesting but nothing more. The original question was "did the allies have any of these plans" ? No !
This is a well known plan in Japan which I wasn't aware of.13thredarmy wrote:This is not a well known plan hence the reason you asked the question in the first place.
At the time of August 16 when this plan was submitted, the KMT army and the communist army were not at war. They were still allied for defeating Japan.13thredarmy wrote:And China occupying Japan ... which Chinese exactly and weren't they fully back in the business of slaughtering each other by that point ?
And this plan was cancelled because of Chiang Kai Shek strongly opposed to it. He was not interested in occupying Japan. He sticked to his belief "以德报怨", "Return good for evil".
No, this plan existed obviously. The document number of this plan was JWPC385-1.13thredarmy wrote:Again, these "plans" are nonsense. interesting but nothing more.
The original question was "did the allies have any of these plans" ? No !
The following is a part of an article by a Japanese historian Kikuji Takayuki (菊地隆之), titled as "The Introduction of Iokibe Makoto's 'The US Occupation Policy of Japan' "(五百旗頭真『米国の日本占領政策』の紹介). Iokibe Makoto is a famous Japanese political scientist who wrote an article (he got Santory award for academic achievements for this article) on the US occupation policy in Chuokohron (中央公論) in 1985.
http://www.bun.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~knagai/00 ... kuchi.html
This paragraph tells that the allies had the three stage-plan for the occupation of Japan. From the second stage, allied forces other than US forces were to participate in occupation of Japan.占領開始期は、予想される終戦時の軍事的状況から米国がほぼ単独で占領せざるを得ず、二十三個師団・八十五万人の米軍を投入する。彼らは日本の抵抗を高く評価し、組織的抵抗が終わったあとも、日本各地における反乱やサボタージュに備えるため、一年間はこの大軍を維持する必要があると考える。他方、米軍を早急に帰国させるべきは、リーヒ・メモの強調するとおりである。それゆえ、三ヶ月目からの第二局面には、五十三万五千人の米軍を撤収させ各国軍に肩代わりさせる。さらに一年を経た後の第三局面では各国兵力を半数以下に削減し、米軍は十三万五千人、全体の三分の一強を占めるのみとなる。