Oui Column in Aug. 1937 Operation Chahar?

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asiaticus
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Oui Column in Aug. 1937 Operation Chahar?

Postby asiaticus » 27 Nov 2006 21:11

I have posted an account map and orbat of the August 1937 Operation Chahar / Peiking –Suiyuan Railway Operation on the WW2 in the Pacific & Asia » Early Japanese Campaign(s) in the 2ndSino-Japanese War (near the bottom of the page)

viewtopic.php?t=105655&start=15

In the Chinese account from which it is mainly derived it mentions the Oui Column.

"On August 29th the Japanese Oui Column moved south from Tushihkou, and on the 30th attacked Yenching via Chihcheng, After repulsing the attack 17th Corps withdrew to join the rest of Tang En-po on the far side of the the Sangchien River. "

I am wondering if anyone knows what part of the Chahar Expeditionary Force this column might have been?

There is no Japanese officer named Oui I know of that might be the leader of the thing and this Chinese history has a track record of mangling Japanese names of getting them wrong on occasion. See map for the location of the operation.

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Postby Peter H » 29 Nov 2006 13:29

Its apparent that the Chinese refer to it as the Quhar campaign.Could Qui be an abreviation of some sort?

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Postby Akira Takizawa » 29 Nov 2006 16:22

Oui (大井) is a Japanese person name. But, I cannot find such a name of commander down to regiments in Kwantung Army. My sources at hand don't show such an unit that moved south from Tushihkou. If it is true, it will be a small unit less than battalion.

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An advisor?

Postby asiaticus » 29 Nov 2006 20:50

Hmm, there is the possibility that this might have been a column mainly of Japanese allied Mongolian troops with a Japanese leader, one of thier advisor corps with the Mongols, and some Japanese troops providing the more sophisticated weaponry and transport.

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Postby Akira Takizawa » 02 Dec 2006 08:18

I checked sources again.

I think that Oui Column will mean Ohizumi Detachment (大泉支隊). It was a battalion from 4th Infantry Regiment of 2nd Division under the Kwantung Army. But, its course is different. It moved from Guyuan (沽源) to Xuanhua (宣化). See attached map.

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re: Japanese sources

Postby asiaticus » 03 Dec 2006 00:46

Thanks Taki. Thats quite a discrepancy from the Chinese version. It actually makes more sense tactically to cut off Kalgan from the south that way rather than coming down the path discribed by the Chinese account.

So this unit from 2nd Division. Was it part of 2nd Divisions detached 15th Mixed Brigade attached to the Chahar Expeditionary Force, or directly attached to the CEF, or under 2nd Division itself?

By the way, who are those Japanese forces to the east of the Great Wall facing the Chinese forces manning it? Whould that be the balance of 2nd Division or something else?
Last edited by asiaticus on 10 Dec 2006 07:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: re: Japanese sources

Postby Akira Takizawa » 03 Dec 2006 07:48

> So this unit from 2nd Division. Was it part of 3nd Divisions detached 15th Mixed Brigade attached to the Chahar Expeditionary Force, or directly attached to the CEF, or under 2nd Division itself?

It was under the 2nd Mixed Brigade.

> By the way, who are those Japanese forces to the east of the Great Wall facing the Chinese forces manning it? Whould that be the balance of 2nd Division or something else?

You said about the force stated "満軍熱河支隊" on the map? It is not Japanese force, but Manchukuo force.

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Postby asiaticus » 04 Dec 2006 13:32

満軍熱河支隊 translates on babblefish as "Full troop [thermal river = Rehe/Jehol] task force" I would guess this is the Manchukuo 5th District Army"Chengde" perhaps?

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Postby Akira Takizawa » 04 Dec 2006 14:23

asiaticus wrote:満軍熱河支隊 translates on babblefish as "Full troop [thermal river = Rehe/Jehol] task force" I would guess this is the Manchukuo 5th District Army"Chengde" perhaps?


It is Jehol Detachment from Manchukuo 5th District Army. The detachment was formed at Chengde on Aug. 1st and the commander was Japanese general Shigero Fujii.

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Postby asiaticus » 05 Dec 2006 00:24

Any idea what forces where with this Jehol Detachment? I have seen some other mentions of Manchukuan forces in other sources and they often mention various detachements from a one of the provincial armies or a District Army but dont say if they are made up of Brigades, regiments, battalions, companies, etc. Leaves one guessing a lot.

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Postby Akira Takizawa » 05 Dec 2006 03:21

asiaticus wrote:Any idea what forces where with this Jehol Detachment?


Its organization is unknown.

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Postby asiaticus » 10 Dec 2006 06:33

Ok. Thanks for the map and the other answers. Puts more light on the subject.

Who was the Ohizumi in command of Ohizumi Detachment (大泉支隊) and his rank? Major?

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Postby Akira Takizawa » 10 Dec 2006 12:48

asiaticus wrote:Who was the Ohizumi in command of Ohizumi Detachment (大泉支隊) and his rank? Major?


He was Major Moto Ohizumi.

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Postby asiaticus » 11 Dec 2006 20:04

Thanks for that answer. Good guess on my part. :^)

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engagements of the Ohizumi Detachment

Postby asiaticus » 11 Dec 2006 20:10

Thanks for that answer Taki. Good guess on my part. :^)

Is there any info on what engagements the Ohizumi Detachment (大泉支隊) had on its operation? Supposedly there were some Chinese forces blocking its way across the Great Wall between Guyuan (沽源) and Xuanhua (宣化).


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