78. Sturm-Division: Gr.W.Btl. 5 & Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189

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USAF1986
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78. Sturm-Division: Gr.W.Btl. 5 & Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189

#1

Post by USAF1986 » 15 Apr 2007, 02:02

Hello! I’m researching the 78. Sturm-Division. The following units appear under the division’s order of battle (dated June 1943) at Lexikon der Wehrmacht:

Granatwerfer-Bataillon 5
Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189

Does anyone know the exact to/from dates these units were subordinated to the 78. Sturm-Division? Thanks for any assistance!

Best regards,
Shawn
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ronzarion
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#2

Post by ronzarion » 15 Apr 2007, 17:07

Hi USAF1986

I have two dates in regards to StuG.Abt. 189. 30.12.42 and again 4.7.43?
Maybe someone might explain why the StuG.Abt. 189 is listed directly under AK XXIII on 30.6 and 7.7 (and not included under 78.Sturm.Div).
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) 30 Dec 42 attached to 78th Sturm-Division
Source: Sturmvogel.Orbat.com
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) 30.12.1942 - Die Abteilung wird in die 78. Sturm Division eingegliedert

- Kämpfe unter der 78. Sturm Division
Source: die-sturmartillerie.com
Gliederung der 78.Sturm-Division: Stand 01.02.1943:
Sturm-Reg.14 I.Btl., II./AR 178, Sturm-Reg.195 I.Btl., III./AR 178, Sturm-Reg.215 I.Btl., I./AR 178, Art.Reg.178, Stug.Abt.189, Flak.Abt.178, Nebel-Werf.Abt.178, Div.Einh.178, Felders.Btl.178, Pz.Jg.Abt.178, Aufkl.Abt.178, Pi.Btl.178, Nachr.Abt.178, Inf.Div.Nachschubführer 178
Source: diedeutschewehrmacht.de
Gliederung der 78.Sturm-Division: Stand 01.06.1943:
Sturm-Reg.14 I.,II.Btl., Sturm-Reg.195 I.,II.Btl., Sturm-Reg.215 I.,II.Btl., Stug.Abt.189, Heeres-Flak.Abt.293, Art.Reg.178 I.-IV.Abt. Div.Einh.178 Felders.Btl.178, Pz.Jg.Abt.178, Aufkl.Abt.178, Pi.Btl.178, Nachr.Abt.178, Inf.Div.Nachschubführer 178
Source: diedeutschewehrmacht.de
Kriegsgliederung der 9.Armee: Stand 30.06.1943:
XXIII.AK:
383.ID, 216.ID, 78.Sturm-Div., T.36.ID, Jg.Btl.8, Jg.Btl.13, Pz.Pi.Kp.811, Pz.Pi.Kp.813, Stug.Abt.185, Stug.Abt.189, Arko 112, AR Stab z.b.V.109, AR Stab 41, AR Stab 775, Art.Reg.II./59, Art.Abt.426, Art.Abt.851, Art.Abt.709, Art.Abt.4./69, Art.Abt.422, Art.Abt.848, Art.Reg.II./66, Art.Abt.859, Art.Abt.653, Art.Abt.1./814, Beob.Abt.22, Werf.Reg.51, Pi.Reg.Stab 623, Pi.Btl.746, Geb.Pi.Btl.85, Br.Kol.B 88, Bau-Btl.78
Source: diedeutschewehrmacht.de
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) 4 Jul 43 attached to 78th Sturm-Division, XXIII Corps, Ninth Army, Army Group Center with 31 StuG III
Source: Sturmvogel.Orbat.com
Kriegsgliederung der 9.Armee: Stand 07.07.1943:
XXIII.AK:
383.ID, 216.ID, 78.Sturm-Div., T.36.ID, Jg.Btl.8, Jg.Btl.13, Pz.Pi.Kp.811, Pz.Pi.Kp.813, Stug.Abt.185, Stug.Abt.189, Arko 112, AR Stab z.b.V.109, AR Stab 41, AR Stab 775, Art.Reg.II./59, Art.Abt.426, Art.Abt.851, Art.Abt.709, Art.Abt.4./69, Art.Abt.422, Art.Abt.848, Art.Reg.II./66, Art.Abt.859, Art.Abt.653, Art.Abt.1./814, Beob.Abt.22, Werf.Reg.51
Source: diedeutschewehrmacht.de
Schlachtengliederung der Wehrmacht Operation Bagration 22.06.1944
78. Sturmdivision ( Generalleutnant Traut ):
Sturm.Rgt.14, Sturm.Rgt.195, Sturm.Rgt.215, Aufk.Kp.178, Fus.Btl.260, Art.Rgt.178, Sturmgeschutz.Abt.189, PzJag.Abt.178, Pio.Btl.178, Feldersatz.Btl.178, H.Fla.Abt.293, Sturm.Btl.AOK.4, Pionier.Btl.752 (AOK Res),
Pz.Aufk.Abt.125 (25.PzGr), Gr.Rgt.480 (260.ID), III./Sich.Btl.122 (286.SD)
Source: forum.panzer-archiv.de
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) Jun 44 decimated in Central Russia
Source: Sturmvogel.Orbat.com
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) Juni 1944 - Abwehrkämpfe bei Orscha und Minsk
- Fast völlige Vernichtung an der Beresina
- Reste flüchten über die Beresina nach Westen.
Source: die-sturmartillerie.com
(Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 189) 8 Aug 44 reorganized as Panzerjäger-Abteilung 70, 4. Kavallerie-Brigade, scheduled to [be] reformed at the same time as Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 184 and attached to reformed 78.Sturm-Division (but not carried out?)
Source: Sturmvogel.Orbat.com

best regards
Rnz
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Martin Block
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Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189

#3

Post by Martin Block » 15 Apr 2007, 23:37

@Shawn

the official date was 29.12.1942:

OKH/GenStdH/Org.Abt. (I) Nr. 6783/42 g.Kdos. v. 29.12.1942
Sofortige Umgliederung der 78. Inf.Div. in 78. Sturm-Div. durch H.Gr. Mitte befohlen.
Der Division werden zugeführt und kriegsgliederungsmäßig eingegliedert:
Flak-Abt. 293
Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189
Gr.Werfer-Btl.(mot.) 5

@ronzarion

Please ignore the second date you found regarding incorporation of Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189. Records show it remained an organic part of 78. Sturm-Div. without interuption until 29.7.1944 when it first was transferred back to the 'Heerestruppen' again before becoming Pz.Jg.Abt. 70 shortly afterwards.

29.12.1942 Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189 ordered to become organic part of the new 78. Sturm-Div.

10.6.1944 Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189 (78. Sturm-Div.) renamed to Stu.Gesch.Brig. 189 (78. Sturm-Div.)

28.7.1944 Gen.d.Art. reported status of Stu.Gesch.Brig. 189 as:
Personnell: 10 O, 102 NCO, 114 OR
StuG: ---
Several soft skinned vehicles available and maintenance unit still intact
Transfer to Germany for refit requested

29.7.1944 Stu.Gesch.Brig. 189 officially detached from 78. Sturm-Div. became a 'Heerestruppe' again and was renamed to Heeres-Stu.Gesch.Brig. 189. Transfer to Magdeburg area for refit ordered.

8.8.1944 Instead of moving to Magdeburg the Heeres-Stu.Gesch.Brig. 189 (without 3. Bttr.) was ordered to move to Mielau. Upon arrival in Mielau it was to be renamed to Pz.Jg.Abt. 70 for the 4. Kav.Brig.. The 3. Bttr. was to continue its move to Magdeburg where upon arrival it was renamed to 3./Heeres-Stu.Gesch.Brig. 244.

29.8.1944 Refit of Pz.Jg.Abt. 70 (w/o 3. Kp.) in Mielau until 20.9.1944 ordered with
Stab & Stabskp. in accordance with K.St.N. 1106 v. 1.2.1944 and
2 Stu.Gesch.Abt. in accordance with K.St.N. 1149 v. 1.2.1944

Sources used: Various BA/MA Freiburg and NARA Washington documents

Martin Block
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#4

Post by ronzarion » 16 Apr 2007, 00:13

Thank you Martin for clarification. Excelent info!

Br
Rnz
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USAF1986
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#5

Post by USAF1986 » 16 Apr 2007, 20:52

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the excellent responses – it is much appreciated!

Best regards,
Shawn
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LB
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#6

Post by LB » 13 Aug 2007, 12:44

Hello to everyone !

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but 78. Sturm-Division is a very particular unit, especially in this year 1943, and it arouses a lot of questions...

First of all, does anybody can translate in English this sentence from Martin's post please : "Der Division werden zugeführt und kriegsgliederungsmäßig eingegliedert: Flak-Abt. 293 etc" ? I need it to understand the whole stuff concerning the reorganization of the division late 1942 and early 1943.

Then, are there additional information concerning the Flak-Abteilung 293 and Granatwerfer Bataillon (motorisiert) 5 subordination to the division in 1943 ?

Thanks !
Best regards,

LB
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Kelvin
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Re: 78. Sturm-Division: Gr.W.Btl. 5 & Stu.Gesch.Abt. 189

#7

Post by Kelvin » 14 Apr 2011, 17:03

Why some elite division always had a separate 12 cm heavy mortar battalion : 78. Sturm Division had Gr.W.Btl. 5 and 1.Skijager division had Gr.W.Btl.18 ?
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