German designs on the Philippines?

Discussions on all aspects of the German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions.
Hosted by Chris Dale.
User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

German designs on the Philippines?

Postby Peter H » 12 May 2007 01:47

German "intervention" in 1898:


Even before the outbreak of the Spanish-American War in 1898,some German leaders wanted Imperial Germany to support Spain against the United States.During the Spanish-American War,Imperial Germany despatched a fleet to Manila Bay,in order to strengthen German claims on the Philippines if the United States abandoned the islands.Tensions rose to the point at which Admiral Dewey informed the German commander,Admiral Otto von Diederichs...that "if Germany wants war,all right,we are ready".The prospect that the Philippines would be seized by Germany or other greater powers led the McKinley Administration to decide to turn the entire archipelago into a US protectorate....In 1898 the same strategic rationale led the United States to annex Guam and Hawaii,which it had long contested with Germany.



The American Way of Strategy,Michael Lind,pp 82-83.


The German Asiastic Squadron at Manila consisted of 5 ships:

when all five ships arrived[June 1898}..they represented a stronger force than that available to Dewey until August...the unneccessary strength of the German squadron and Diederichs insistence of his rights under Dewey's blockade...caused potentially serious misunderstandings that still echoed three decades later.

User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Postby Peter H » 12 May 2007 01:58

The German squadron consisted of SMS Kaiser,SMS Irene,SMS Cormoran,SMS Kaiserin Augusta and SMS Prinzess Wilhelm.

The SMS Kaiserin Augusta was under the command of the Kaiser's brother Prince Heinrich of Prussia.Erich Raeder was also part of the crew.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... 57851/pg_1

When the Spanish-American War broke out, German V/Adm. von Diederichs dispatched several cruisers - such as the Kaiserin Augusta - to Philippine waters, thus arousing the animosity and suspicions of Adm. Dewey, who realized full well that many Germans sided with the Spanish cause against that of the United States. On the other hand, the German officers and sailors were duly impressed by the performance of Dewe/s fleet at the Battle of Manila Bay over the antiquated Spanish vessels. Never again would Spain be a world power.

Meanwhile, the ever industrious Lt. Raeder had taught himself Spanish as yet another language he had mastered and also began his career as a military writer with a paper entitled The Philippine Revolt Against Spanish Domination that found favor with both Capt. Flachte and Prince Heinrich.



SMS Kaiserin Augusta

Image
http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/armoured-cru ... ugusta.jpg

User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Postby Peter H » 12 May 2007 03:33

15 years later,Graf von Spee's Squadron visits Manila in 1913.

German sailors and US military get together.

Image

User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Postby Peter H » 12 May 2007 14:50

From the Manila Times, September 21, 2006.

What ifs in Philippine history

By Augusto V. de Viana

Given the benefit of hindsight, we could stretch our imagination on what the country could have been if history had taken a different turn. Could it have been for the better or worse?

What if the Philippines became a German colony?

The Philippines would have been a German colony had a second battle of Manila Bay taken place in 1898. After defeating the Spanish fleet on May 1, 1898, US Rear Admiral George Dewey ordered a blockade of Manila. Other countries like Japan, Great Britain, France and Germany sent naval vessels to protect their nationals and interests in the country. The German squadron under Vice Admiral Otto Von Diederichs, which consisted of five warships and two auxiliaries, outnumbered the Americans.

One ship alone, the transport Darmstadt, carried 1,400 men, nearly the number of Dewey’s men. The Germans violated Dewey’s blockade of Manila by supplying flour to the trapped Spaniards and Spanish ladies and residents were treated aboard the German vessels. German officers also visited Spanish and Filipino outposts. At one time the German warship Irene interfered with the landing of Filipino troops on Grande Island in Zambales that Dewey had to send the cruiser Concord. On seeing the American warship the German vessel quietly left Subic Bay.

At that time Germany was looking for new territories to colonize. It had acquired the eastern half of New Guinea in 1873 and half of Samoa in 1889. In 1876 a German resident of Jolo, Captain Hermann Leopold Schuck, asked Germany to intervene on behalf of the Sultan of Sulu. The sultanate at that time was being attacked by Spanish forces.

The Germans continued to violate the blockade. They took soundings off Malabon and at the mouth of the Pasig River. Von Diederichs himself landed at Manila and occupied one of the quarters of the Spanish officers. The German soldiers occupied the lighthouse of Manila and some of them landed in Mariveles and conducted drills.

They also irritated Dewey by sending a launch one night at 11 p.m. to deliver an unimportant message.

The breaking point came when the German gunboat Cormoran refused to acknowledge signals from the Americans to be boarded for inspection. The boat had to be stopped by firing a shot across its bow. Von Diederichs then sent an officer to complain about Dewey’s provocative acts.

While listening to the German officer, Dewey’s complexion changed from white to red. He then asked: “Does his Excellency [von Diederichs] know that it is my force and not his is that is blockading this port [Manila]?

The officer answered yes.

Dewey continued: “And is he aware that he has no rights except as I choose to allow him and does he realize that he cannot communicate with that city without my permission?”

“One can imagine, sir, that you were conducting this blockade,” was the reply.

Dewey then bluntly asked, “Do you want war with us?”

“Certainly not!” was the officer’s curt reply

“Well, it looks like it, and you are very near it, and . . . you can have it as soon as you like!” replied Dewey with his voice raised so that he could be heard by officers below deck.

The German officer backed in consternation and whispered to Dewey’s flag lieutenant: “Your admiral seems to be much in earnest.” The flag lieutenant replied: “You can be certain that he means every word he says.”

For a while there was a tense situation in Manila Bay. The Germans were superior in both men and firepower to the Americans. At this point the British squadron under Captain Sir Edward Chichester sided with Dewey. The British ship Immortalit’e sailed alongside Dewey’s flagship the Olympia with its band playing “The Star Spangled Banner.” The balance now tipped in favor of the Americans and the Germans stopped their provocations.

If a second battle was fought and if the United States were defeated, the Philippines would have become a German colony. The idea would have been supported by the Filipino elite since Germany had a positive image as a rapidly progressive European power. Rizal and other reformists admired Germany, its culture and its industry and hoped that Filipinos imitate the German work ethic known for its emphasis on efficiency and frugality.

The histories of territories which experienced German rule such as the Northern Mariana Islands, remember the period “as the good old days.” Though the natives could not be German citizens, education and health care were extended to the population. The people were allowed to retain their native customs.

The German language was taught in the public schools. The Germans instilled the concept that work itself was a virtue. Order, punctuality, camaraderie and obedience to authority and technical knowledge were taught as desirable characteristics. The measure of progress was the improved standard of living. Most of the natives had a job which provided them with security and necessities in life.

However, if the Philippines became a German colony, Germany’s rule would be a brief one. With the outbreak of the First World War in 1914, Japan rapidly occupied the German Pacific colonies in the Marianas, Palau and the Carolines came under Japanese mandate of the League of Nations.

The Philippines would have suffered the same fate as the former German colonies. Had the Philippines become a Japanese territory from 1914 up to the Second World War, the Filipinos would be fighting on the side of Japan, not the United States, and history would have been vastly different.

User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Postby Peter H » 13 May 2007 02:38

http://www.spanamwar.com/mccullch.htm

On July 5, Dewey boarded HUGH McCULLOCH to make a personal reconnaissance of the German position at Mariveles, near the entrance to Manila Bay. The Germans had been defying the blockade and seemed to be creating deliberate provocations. At Mariveles, they had established an unauthorized base. Eventually, as trouble with the German forces continued to escalate, Flag Lieutenant Brumby was ordered to take HUGH McCULLOCH and stop the German warship CORMORAN, which had entered the bay in violation of the blockade without obtaining permission. The HUGH McCULLOCH chased the CORMORAN, finally firing a shot across her bow to convince her to stop.


SMS Cormoran,not the later one interned at Guam:

http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/sms_cormoran.htm

User avatar
Peter H
Forum Staff
Posts: 28605
Joined: 30 Dec 2002 13:18
Location: Australia

Postby Peter H » 13 May 2007 02:50


Utrecht
Member
Posts: 176
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 14:56
Location: The Netherlands

Postby Utrecht » 14 May 2007 11:52

This is new(s) for me!

Great posts!

weiwensg
Member
Posts: 154
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 11:27
Location: Singapore

Postby weiwensg » 20 May 2007 11:19

Utrecht wrote:This is new(s) for me!

Great posts!

i also never encountered this during my study of southeast asian history for my A levels. interesting trivia.

South
Financial supporter
Posts: 1701
Joined: 06 Sep 2007 09:01
Location: USA

Postby South » 07 Sep 2007 20:13

Good afternoon Peter H,

Re Michael Lind's "In 1898 the same strategic rationale led the United States to annex Guam and Hawaii,...";

Michael Lind is a superb historian but here he is not correct.

US strategic plans re Hawaii were developed prior to the US Civil War (1861-65). In 1867 there was a US Government encouraged US citizen presence on the islands. In 1898, they were annexed.

Hawaii also relates to the coincidence that gold was discovered in California in 1848. Many an American migrated to California seeking the stuff. Also by coincidence the US Government sent the military expedition of John C. Fremont and Kit Carson to California prior to the discovery of gold. California was still Mexican territory.

Overall US strategic plans called for occupying the continent and displacing the Europeans. Note that Lincoln, DURING the US Civil War, signed the railroad legislation for a transcontinental line.

Hawaii fits in via basic political geography and the downstream geopolitics. Nearby areas must be under control; a foreign power is a threat. Hawaii had to be acquired by the US for the US to acquire California.

Modern Germany wasn't established when the US planned its "manifest destiny".

Time precludes rambling on about Guam and the Phillippines for now......

User avatar
Paul kyre
Member
Posts: 130
Joined: 23 May 2006 07:30
Location: Philippines

Postby Paul kyre » 19 Jan 2008 11:49

germany supported philippine independence against spain.
as germans used to read articles in german newspapers about the battle between spain and the philippines.
and most of the filipinos in exile are in europe-germany perhaps.

Do you know Jose Rizal raised a german flag in Mount Banahaw? That makes the Spaniards suspicious of him? calling him an agent of bismark? He may admire Germany, and love his fatherland. Germans would have helped the filipinos in the Revolucion Filipina as what the germans applauded the defiance of the boers in the boer war.

In addition to that, Apolinario Mabini even tried to call Austria Hungary for help via Ferdinand Blumentritt-however, failed.
Last edited by Paul kyre on 26 Jan 2008 07:16, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Paul kyre
Member
Posts: 130
Joined: 23 May 2006 07:30
Location: Philippines

Postby Paul kyre » 19 Jan 2008 11:54

Peter H wrote:From the Manila Times, September 21, 2006.

What ifs in Philippine history

By Augusto V. de Viana

Given the benefit of hindsight, we could stretch our imagination on what the country could have been if history had taken a different turn. Could it have been for the better or worse?

What if the Philippines became a German colony?

The Philippines would have been a German colony had a second battle of Manila Bay taken place in 1898. After defeating the Spanish fleet on May 1, 1898, US Rear Admiral George Dewey ordered a blockade of Manila. Other countries like Japan, Great Britain, France and Germany sent naval vessels to protect their nationals and interests in the country. The German squadron under Vice Admiral Otto Von Diederichs, which consisted of five warships and two auxiliaries, outnumbered the Americans.

One ship alone, the transport Darmstadt, carried 1,400 men, nearly the number of Dewey’s men. The Germans violated Dewey’s blockade of Manila by supplying flour to the trapped Spaniards and Spanish ladies and residents were treated aboard the German vessels. German officers also visited Spanish and Filipino outposts. At one time the German warship Irene interfered with the landing of Filipino troops on Grande Island in Zambales that Dewey had to send the cruiser Concord. On seeing the American warship the German vessel quietly left Subic Bay.

At that time Germany was looking for new territories to colonize. It had acquired the eastern half of New Guinea in 1873 and half of Samoa in 1889. In 1876 a German resident of Jolo, Captain Hermann Leopold Schuck, asked Germany to intervene on behalf of the Sultan of Sulu. The sultanate at that time was being attacked by Spanish forces.

The Germans continued to violate the blockade. They took soundings off Malabon and at the mouth of the Pasig River. Von Diederichs himself landed at Manila and occupied one of the quarters of the Spanish officers. The German soldiers occupied the lighthouse of Manila and some of them landed in Mariveles and conducted drills.

They also irritated Dewey by sending a launch one night at 11 p.m. to deliver an unimportant message.

The breaking point came when the German gunboat Cormoran refused to acknowledge signals from the Americans to be boarded for inspection. The boat had to be stopped by firing a shot across its bow. Von Diederichs then sent an officer to complain about Dewey’s provocative acts.

While listening to the German officer, Dewey’s complexion changed from white to red. He then asked: “Does his Excellency [von Diederichs] know that it is my force and not his is that is blockading this port [Manila]?

The officer answered yes.

Dewey continued: “And is he aware that he has no rights except as I choose to allow him and does he realize that he cannot communicate with that city without my permission?”

“One can imagine, sir, that you were conducting this blockade,” was the reply.

Dewey then bluntly asked, “Do you want war with us?”

“Certainly not!” was the officer’s curt reply

“Well, it looks like it, and you are very near it, and . . . you can have it as soon as you like!” replied Dewey with his voice raised so that he could be heard by officers below deck.

The German officer backed in consternation and whispered to Dewey’s flag lieutenant: “Your admiral seems to be much in earnest.” The flag lieutenant replied: “You can be certain that he means every word he says.”

For a while there was a tense situation in Manila Bay. The Germans were superior in both men and firepower to the Americans. At this point the British squadron under Captain Sir Edward Chichester sided with Dewey. The British ship Immortalit’e sailed alongside Dewey’s flagship the Olympia with its band playing “The Star Spangled Banner.” The balance now tipped in favor of the Americans and the Germans stopped their provocations.

If a second battle was fought and if the United States were defeated, the Philippines would have become a German colony. The idea would have been supported by the Filipino elite since Germany had a positive image as a rapidly progressive European power. Rizal and other reformists admired Germany, its culture and its industry and hoped that Filipinos imitate the German work ethic known for its emphasis on efficiency and frugality.

The histories of territories which experienced German rule such as the Northern Mariana Islands, remember the period “as the good old days.” Though the natives could not be German citizens, education and health care were extended to the population. The people were allowed to retain their native customs.

The German language was taught in the public schools. The Germans instilled the concept that work itself was a virtue. Order, punctuality, camaraderie and obedience to authority and technical knowledge were taught as desirable characteristics. The measure of progress was the improved standard of living. Most of the natives had a job which provided them with security and necessities in life.

However, if the Philippines became a German colony, Germany’s rule would be a brief one. With the outbreak of the First World War in 1914, Japan rapidly occupied the German Pacific colonies in the Marianas, Palau and the Carolines came under Japanese mandate of the League of Nations.

The Philippines would have suffered the same fate as the former German colonies. Had the Philippines become a Japanese territory from 1914 up to the Second World War, the Filipinos would be fighting on the side of Japan, not the United States, and history would have been vastly different.


or japan would have gave philippines or tsingtao to germany-thanks to the reichkolonialbund perhaps, as germany may also likely to eyed on these territories (the one being wrestled or the another,potential to taken.)

Dave Bender
Member
Posts: 3533
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 21:21
Location: Michigan U.S.A.

Germans violated Dewey’s blockade of Manila

Postby Dave Bender » 19 Jan 2008 15:01

The Germans violated Dewey’s blockade of Manila by supplying flour to the trapped Spaniards and Spanish ladies and residents were treated aboard the German vessels.

Nothing wrong with that. Hunger blockades are clearly illegal per the Hague Conventions, and generally accepted principles of warfare prior to the Hague Conventions being written. The German fleet did show considerable courage in standing up for international law, which undoubtedly earned a lot of Spanish good will.

The breaking point came when the German gunboat Cormoran refused to acknowledge signals from the Americans to be boarded for inspection. The boat had to be stopped by firing a shot across its bow. Von Diederichs then sent an officer to complain about Dewey’s provocative acts.

Here again it is the U.S. that was in the wrong. The Americans have no right under international law to stop and inspect foreign warships.

The British ship Immortalit’e sailed alongside Dewey’s flagship the Olympia with its band playing “The Star Spangled Banner.”

Britain got along very well with Germany in 1898, even to the point of considering a military alliance. I think the British were displaying better judgement then either the U.S. or Germany in attempting to defuse a potential confrontation.

Philippines would have become a German colony.

Unlike almost everyone else, the German 2nd Reich did not seize colonies by force. They were all acquired by purchase or treaties with local tribal chiefs. Germany would need to purchase the Philippines from Spain prior to the April 1898 American declaration of war on Spain. As far as I am aware, Spain was not interested in selling the Philippines.

User avatar
WEISWEILER
Member
Posts: 1357
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 17:19

Postby WEISWEILER » 25 Jan 2008 13:44

Very nice, indeed.

/W

Dave Bender
Member
Posts: 3533
Joined: 24 Apr 2006 21:21
Location: Michigan U.S.A.

More Wrinkles.

Postby Dave Bender » 05 Feb 2008 16:21

14 Dec 1897. Treaty of Biak-na-Bato.
The Spanish Governor General agrees to grant independence to the Philippines in 3 years.

1 May 1898. Battle of Manila Bay.
After the battle Britain, Germany, France and Japan all had warships present in Manila Bay, in addition to the American fleet.


12 Jun 1898. Philippine proclamation of independence.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/declaration.html
Admiral Dewey was invited to attend but declined.

Essentially we have the U.S. seizing the Philippines after they have been promised independence by Spain. I suspect that Britain, Germany, France and Japan were all sniffing out the possibility of supporting Philippine independence in return for favored trading rights and/or a naval base.


10 Dec 1898. Treaty of Paris signed. Spain officially cedes the Philippines to the U.S.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/treaty1898.html
Filipino leaders are excluded from this treaty.

http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/ag9812xx.html
Filipino leaders protest their exclusion from the Treaty of Paris.

21 December 1898. American assimilation of the Philippines.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/benevolent.html
American President McKinley issues a proclamation which states that the U.S. has full government rights in the Philippines. There is no recognition whatsoever of Filipino self-government, even at the local level. This is reinforced 4 Jan 1899 in a proclamation issued by American military governor.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/ot990104.html

5 Jan 1899. Philippine protest of American assimilation.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/ag990105.html

23 Jan 1899. First Filipino Republic declared.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/malolos.html
It includes a constitution loosely patterned on the American constitution.

24 Jan 1899. Philippine Republic refuses to accept American rule.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/ag990124.html

2 Jun 1899. Philippine Republic declares war on the American occupation.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/pa990602.html

19 April 1901. Philippine Republic surrenders to the American army.
http://www.msc.edu.ph/centennial/ag010419.html

Clearly the U.S. was interested in obtaining the Philippines as a colony, not in freeing them from Spain. The Philippines would have been independent in December 1900. The American conquest set back Philippine independence by 46 years.

Jednakovic00
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Nov 2009 23:30

Re: German designs on the Philippines?

Postby Jednakovic00 » 10 Nov 2009 23:39

I got a couple of questions about German designs on the Philippines:

1) What would Germany do with the Philippines if we assumed that they defeated the Americans in a second war for the Philippines?

2) If Germany takes control of the Philippines, would they use it as a penal colony for any convicts or rebellious subjects?

3) Assuming Austria-Hungary also takes control of the Philippines other than the Germans, what would they do with the country? Rule it from Vienna or Budapest, or would they have a condiminium, like they have in Bosnia? Would they use it as a penal colony for their rebellious subjects?

Peter H wrote:15 years later,Graf von Spee's Squadron visits Manila in 1913.

German sailors and US military get together.

Image


The Philippines would end up being a Japanese colony after 1914 has the Allies won WWI, but if the Central Powers won WWI, Germany would retain its colonies, is that correct? Would the Philippines have a couple of Nazis if Germany won?

Which country do you think would be a better ruler for the Philippines between Germany, Austria-Hungary, Britain, or Russia? Assuming that US and Japan wouldn't be interested.


Return to “German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests