Japanese using American/Allied Weapons

[Mansal D]

Does anyone know of any pictures of Japanese with allied weapons? Any info at all?

Thanks

[tom!]

Hi.

some afv pics:






captured chinese Vickers amphibious tank during a japanese river-crossing exercise

Yours

tom!

[Akira Takizawa]

Bren Carrier
http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... 1177683324

Taki

[asiaticus]

Taki

Where did they get those T-26's! Korea in 1938? Or from the Chinese 200th Division in Guangxi 1939-40?

[Akira Takizawa]

Where did they get those T-26's! Korea in 1938? Or from the Chinese 200th Division in Guangxi 1939-40?

No. They were from Chinese 200th Division in Burma 1942.

Taki

[asiaticus]

Hmm, was wondering if any were still operational by 1942.

I know the Chinese V Corps had an armoured regiment but had no idea how it was equipped by 1942. It seems it was the same armoured regiment that had been with the 200th Division in Guangxi but now an independant unit.

Any idea how many of these tanks the Japanese Army picked up and whereabouts did they find them? If the 200th abandoned them when they tried to march back to China, I would have though they would have destroyed them.

[JoeB]

From the book 'Mohitotsu no rikugun heikishi':
another M3, but this one ex-Brit captured in Burma, Brit style stowage.


Photo believed to be Dutch White Scout Cars captured by the Japanese and in service with Japanese-allied Indonesian forces, from this site:
http://www.overvalwagen.com/armoured3.html

Article about operational use of captured P-40's in Burma.
http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/capt ... ed_p40.htm

Joe

[Mansal D]

That is interesting to see the Japanese P-40.

Does anyone have photos of Japanese troops with Carbine's, Garand's etc?

[JamesL]

Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?

[Akira Takizawa]

Any idea how many of these tanks the Japanese Army picked up and whereabouts did they find them?

They were captured on the Burma road in Yunnan Province. I don't know the numbers, but they were not many.

Though I said that they were from 200th Division, the tank unit was not a part of 200th Division. They were from Chinese 5th Corps Tank Regiment correctly.

Taki

[Sewer King]

Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?

US destroyer USS Stewart (DD-224) was captured at Soerabaja, Netherlands East Indies, in 1942 after the Americans had thought she was scuttled. The Japanese refitted her as Patrol Boat No.102 and kept her in service through the end of the war.

Dutch destroyer Banckert was also captured at Soerebaja at the same time, but although she was salved she was never commissioned into the IJN. British destroyer HMS Thracian was captured after she ran aground at Hong Kong, and taken into service as a training vessel.

Does anyone have photos of Japanese troops with Carbine's, Garand's etc?

There is enough mention of Japanese using M1 rifles picked up from fallen Marines at Iwo Jima, and of course late in the war the Imperial Navy made a small number of Type 5 rifles, copies of the Garand in 7.7mm.

Russell Spurr's account of the IJN's "Last Sortie," that of battleship Yamato and her escorts in A Glorious Way to Die,, mentions the intent to run the great ship aground at Okinawa after shooting up the American invasion force there. In this inexact quote, a young group of her crewmen pestered their petty officers for rifles and bayonets, since the crew was to hurry ashore as naval infantry to join the island's defenders. How could they do that unarmed?

' "Just take a weapon off a dead American," someone said. "There'll be plenty of them lying around. How many divisions have they got? Five or six? A few salvos from our guns, boom! boom! boom! and that'll be the end of them!

' "We've got to get there first.' one cautious soul remarked. The others cheerfully emptied a can of combustibles on top of his head.'

---------------------------------------

I would have thought any wider use of captured American rifles would have been later in the war, in places where Japanese war photographers would have been less likely to be, or to survive. Therefore it would be all the more intriguing to see any such photo.

-- Alan

[asiaticus]

They were captured on the Burma road in Yunnan Province. I don't know the numbers, but they were not many.

Though I said that they were from 200th Division, the tank unit was not a part of 200th Division. They were from Chinese 5th Corps Tank Regiment correctly.

Taki

Thanks Taki.

Interesting, They probably broke down on the retreat, and did not have the time to destroy them before the Japanese came up on them. One account I read mentioned the Japanese were in hot pursuit and caught up with the retreating Chinese in Yunnan near the Burma Road Salween crossing.

[JoeB]

Did not the Japanese capture a US destroyer or minesweeper and put it to use?

Besides USS Stewart, also the Yangtze gunboat USS Luzon (PR-7), which had withdrawn to the Philippines. As IJN Karatsu, she shared part credit with a/c in sinking the US submarine Cisco in 1943. Stewart/PB 102 was also in the vicinity of a US sub sinking in 1944 but apparently not directly involved.

Joe

[Peter H]

I doubt this is true but this came up in 1943:

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt0 ... lanes.html

There is some evidence that the Japanese may be using captured U.S. planes with U.S. markings for reconnaissance purposes.

On two distinct occasions an unidentified U.S. Navy PBY has been seen hovering around the edge of a U.S. Navy task force for a good part of the day. The Air Officer of a U.S. carrier believes this PBY may have been captured by the Japanese and is being used by them for reconnaissance. On an earlier occasion, a U.S. plane tried to identify the personnel of a PBY and reported that the personnel turned their faces away. Two other pilots reported that a PBY gave them the incorrect signal but showed the proper lights and a third pilot said that a PBY gave him the correct signal but showed the wrong lights. Bombing pilots reported similar incidents where a PBY circled for a long time before giving recognition signals.

[Sewer King]

It sounds unlikely, but not implausible. The Germans were said to have done the same with some few captured B-17s to shadow US bomber formations. I think it was said in Edwin Jablonski's book Flying Fortress (New York: Doubleday, 1971) that such lone, trailing B-17s kept just outside of range and were to be fired on if seen, even at risk to genuinely friendly stragglers.

A USN aviator close enough to see the PBY crew's faces would have been close enough to report the plane's markings. Although this report of "rogue" PBYs is more like that of a professional journal than official intelligence, it seems that if the Navy took it seriously the fleet would have been alerted to watch for it, and the matter maybe preserved in records. Combat air patrols might have heard of such a possibility however small.

Flying a captured enemy plane into action has other risks beyond the obvious, and this would seem even more so for a long-range recce plane like a PBY. There is one instance of a captured P-38 flown by the Italians and downing an American warplane, but the rogue was soon grounded due to engine degradation from the use of Italian fuel. Of course many captured planes are often not in the best condition when forced down. Even without battle damage, their combat life without proper spares and care could be relatively limited.

John Prados' exhaustive study of US naval intelligence in the Pacific, Combined Fleet Decoded (New York: Random House, 1995), page 429, mentions that the Japanese Army Air Force flew a captured Martin PBM Mariner.for its technical evaluation.

Theoretically, if the Japanese had such an opportunity to fly a PBY against its former owners, at what level would it have been decided to try doing so?

-- Alan