German spies and traitors helping the Allies

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FarKenal
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Joined: 16 Nov 2005, 04:36
Location: Australia

German spies and traitors helping the Allies

#1

Post by FarKenal » 04 Apr 2008, 04:54

Hi, I thought I knew a lot about the war until just recently reading about Germany’s traitors during the war. And I was hoping to see if I had a proper understanding of most of them from what I have read on the internet (we all know how reliable it can be, but this site always seems to be well informed).

I have always been wondering if the kind of information that was passed on was any of it a possible turning point in the war? So other than the ones I’m about to list, can anyone correct me or add in a few more that I’d love to know about.


One of the most highly ranked traitors continually passing on sensitive information to the Allies was Wilhelm Canaris (Head of Intelligence) along with his subordinate Hans Oster. Of which I have read Franco of Spain had written to Hitler confirming his intent to join the axis, then after Canaris met Franco warning him that despite Germany’s recent victory over France that they were in a desperate situation and had no intention of marching into Spain to force their co-operation. Franco turned Hitler down with an unreasonable requirement list, 4 weeks later when he came to visit Franco.

In the prelude to the Anzio landings in Italy, it was Canaris who convinced Kesselring that he could release his reserve divisions from that area to march further down and bolster the front line, by saying that there seemed to be no noticeable build up of Allied naval transport or any obvious naval landing warnings.

Through his contacts Canaris also sent a copy of the German invasion plans of Norway to the Norwegian King, giving them plenty of time to prepare and repulse them.

I think it could also of been the persistant overestimating of enemy forces and underestimation of their own, from people like Ludwig Beck and Canaris in the early stages that I think made Hitler constantly throw away good intelligence later, Like the reports from Guderian who was scarily close to how many tanks the Russian had.


From quick research it seems that the Red Ochestra group only sent on to Moscow details about the German front lines units and partial objectives. So they were a thorn but not that damaging.

Another interesting one is Rudolf Roessler (the Lucy spy ring) is it safe to assume that this was in fact a British agent who the Brits were using to pass on critical information that they broke from the Enigma codings? and hence go to some extent explaining Rudolf’s statement to the Russian that they can have the info free of charge as long as they don’t enquire about its source.


Then I know these are my own opinions but were do you guys think of the following.

In the prelude to the German ultimatum to the Poles for the Danzig corridor, Hitler correctly assumed that nearly everyone in Britain wanted to stay out of the war. However two factors that made them declare war on Germany was

That after Chamberlain had been talking himself up on how he was going to subdue the Germans from their constant land grabbing (Austria, Studentland etc) he feared that if he did not take firm action this time, then he would be booted out of office. So without wanting to lose his job, he had his country declare war on Germany.

What also may of contributed to Britain declaring war is that Germany’s ex chief of the army, Ludwig Beck with a entourage of other very highly ranked Generals (Von Kluge, Tresckow, Von Kleist, Stulpnagel etc) and Senators (Goerdeler) had previously approached the British in 1938 for their support in a coup over Hitler. Things however did not materialize then, though now they thought if Britain declared war, that many other Generals would see the hopelessness of Germany’s situation and be accepting of a new peace orientated Government to be installed. So with the promise of a coup and obvious internal dissent of Germany’s most highly ranked officers, Britain thought with the declaration that Hitler would be overthrown, and it would lead to a permanent end of the Nazi party in power.
Does anyone have differing thoughts on this??
Thanks

ljadw
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Re: German spies and traitors helping the Allies

#2

Post by ljadw » 17 Jun 2011, 21:06

Yes:these are only Indian tales
1)About Franco and Canaris :no one knows what they were saying each other
2)About Anzio:it only was incompetence
3)About Norway :an invention
4)Trescow was no general (he was 37),Kleist was retired,and that Kluge and Stulpnagel were approaching the British in 1938 is not true
5) the one who was approaching the British was an other Kleist :no relatveand no general .


paspartoo
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Re: German spies and traitors helping the Allies

#3

Post by paspartoo » 18 Jun 2011, 09:21

There was no way that Franco would join the axis ,his country was ruined by war.I think the other cases you mention are also taken out of context.Military authorities had their own intelligence from codebreaking and traffic analysis and didn't need Canaris to tell them what would happen.During the war the Abwehr attracted people who opposed the regime and Canaris protected them.This was no secret and obviously it meant his agency had zero credibility with the nazi higher-ups.
A simple economist with an unhealthy interest in military and intelligence history.....
http://chris-intel-corner.blogspot.com/

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