Einsatzkommando 'careers'

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Kokampf
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Einsatzkommando 'careers'

#1

Post by Kokampf » 29 Jan 2003, 23:29

As we all know, the murderous 'SD' Einsatzgruppen were lead by an assortment of Sicherheitspolizei (SD, Kripo, Gestapo) officers and relied heavily for manpower upon the men of the Ordnungspolizei uniformed police services and upon locally recruited auxiliaries. More disturbingly, there were also soldiers drawn from the Waffen-SS and (not 100% sure of this) the Wehrmacht:

"They are late or fall asleep on duty. They are court-marshaled but are told they can escape punishment by volunteering for the Special Commandos. Well, these commandos, where they are first put through special training, are murder commandos. When the young men realize what they are being asked to do and refuse to take part in mass murder, they are told the orders are given as a form of punishment. Either they can obey and take that punishment or they can be shot. In any case their career is over and done with. By such methods decent young men are turned into criminals."
- Georg Keppler, Waffen-SS Das Reich officer.

To what extent is this well-known quote a fair description of the way in which (Waffen-SS) soldiers found their way into the Einsatzgruppen? Was it often used as a punishment and a disgrace, like non-penal 'assignments' of officers to Dirlewanger's unit for instance? And, more interestingly, what means did the soldiers and policemen assigned to these obscene tasks have, if any, for returning to legitimate police or military careers afterwards? Were they considered, on account of their intimate and incriminating knowledge of major state crimes and of the psychological effects of their participation in them, doomed to a career with the Einsatzgruppen and in other squalid posts such as Sonderkommando Dirlewanger and the camps? Were they still even counted as having membership of their original organisations by this stage? Or were able to return to their original duties without issue after a time?

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#2

Post by David Thompson » 30 Jan 2003, 00:22

Kokampf -- You asked:

(1) "To what extent is this well-known quote a fair description of the way in which (Waffen-SS) soldiers found their way into the Einsatzgruppen?"

It may be a fair description of one way in which Waffen-SS soldiers found their way into the Einsatzgruppen. However, in the early stages of the war on the eastern front, Himmler assigned some Waffen-SS units to "anti-partisan" tasks which were not especially different from those assigned to the Einsatzgruppen units. These were unit assignments, not individual postings, which involved the 1st and 2nd SS Cavalry Regiments and the SS 1st Infantry Brigade.

There is a general discussion of the subject of Waffen-SS involvement in war crimes which you may find interesting at:

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... sc&start=0

(2) "Was it often used as a punishment and a disgrace, like non-penal 'assignments' of officers to Dirlewanger's unit for instance?"

I'm not sure, where Waffen-SS officers are concerned. However, the assignments did not seem to have a negative effect on the careers of the RSHA officers who commanded Einsatzgruppe units. You can get a better idea of the career development prospects for them by looking at the individual bios on Michael Miller's ABR site at:

http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/SS-PO ... uppen.html

Based on my research, assignment to Einsatzgruppe-type tasks did not seem to blight the careers of the commanders of police battalions and regiments, either.

(3) "And, more interestingly, what means did the soldiers and policemen assigned to these obscene tasks have, if any, for returning to legitimate police or military careers afterwards? Were they considered, on account of their intimate and incriminating knowledge of major state crimes and of the psychological effects of their participation in them, doomed to a career with the Einsatzgruppen and in other squalid posts such as Sonderkommando Dirlewanger and the camps? Were they still even counted as having membership of their original organisations by this stage? Or were able to return to their original duties without issue after a time?"

Same answer as (2), above.


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Kokampf
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#3

Post by Kokampf » 30 Jan 2003, 01:38

David Thompson wrote:It may be a fair description of one way in which Waffen-SS soldiers found their way into the Einsatzgruppen. However, in the early stages of the war on the eastern front, Himmler assigned some Waffen-SS units to "anti-partisan" tasks which were not especially different from those assigned to the Einsatzgruppen units. These were unit assignments, not individual postings, which involved the 1st and 2nd SS Cavalry Regiments and the SS 1st Infantry Brigade.
I know about the dubious nature and duties of the independent Totenkopf cavalry and infantry units left over from the formation of the SS-TK division and used by Himmler's Kommandostab, of the Florian Geyer division subsequently formed from said cavalry, and of the various notorious anti-partisan gebirgsjager and ethnic volunteer units.

I should have made it more clear that I was concerned here with the personnel actually comprising the 'rank and file' of the SD-Einsatzgruppen units themselves (who wore SD uniform, but were mostly not SD men) and the means by which soldiers from 'respectable' front-line units (not the units mentioned above) may have ended up there.
There is a general discussion of the subject of Waffen-SS involvement in war crimes which you may find interesting at:

[urlhttp://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... sc&start=0[/url]
Thankyou...
(2) "Was it often used as a punishment and a disgrace, like non-penal 'assignments' of officers to Dirlewanger's unit for instance?"

I'm not sure, where Waffen-SS officers are concerned. However, the assignments did not seem to have a negative effect on the careers of the RSHA officers who commanded Einsatzgruppe units. You can get a better idea of the career development prospects for them by looking at the individual bios on Michael Miller's ABR site at:

http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/SS-PO ... uppen.html

Based on my research, assignment to Einsatzgruppe-type tasks did not seem to blight the careers of the commanders of police battalions and regiments, either.
How about the enlisted men (who appear to be the ones of more diverse origin - understandable in that the Sipo officers had little of the unskilled mass manpower required within their own organisations to call upon)?
(3) "And, more interestingly, what means did the soldiers and policemen assigned to these obscene tasks have, if any, for returning to legitimate police or military careers afterwards? Were they considered, on account of their intimate and incriminating knowledge of major state crimes and of the psychological effects of their participation in them, doomed to a career with the Einsatzgruppen and in other squalid posts such as Sonderkommando Dirlewanger and the camps? Were they still even counted as having membership of their original organisations by this stage? Or were able to return to their original duties without issue after a time?"

Same answer as (2), above.
So officers of the police units assisting the Einsatzgruppen and the Sipo officers of the Einsatzgruppen themselves could certainly continue with a normal career progression. Has anyone any evidence about group I have now defined above (the rank and file of the Einsatzgruppen, specifically those of 'respectable' military origin)?

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#4

Post by tomalbright » 30 Jan 2003, 16:08

I believe that many of "rank-and-file" Einsatzgruppen personnel were Waffen SS men not individually singled out for punitive or disciplinary action as Keppler eloquently testified above. These troops were assigned to the various Einsatzkommandos from their conception and were an integral part of the units' composition. That being said, the origin of these Waffen SS men has not been documented in any source that I have read. My guess would be that many came from the Waffen SS Training and Replacement system; rather than being assigned to a front-line W-SS unit, companies of these men were assigned directly to an Einsatzkommando after their training period. The Einsatzgruppen also utilized any available rear area W-SS units (and perhaps some Heer units) as ad hoc additions for certain "actions" requiring additional personnel. The feldersatz battalions or even supply troops of frontline W-SS units could and were undoubtably involved in some Einsatzkommando murder operations

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#5

Post by David Thompson » 04 Feb 2003, 09:21

Kokampf -- I was just looking at IMT (Nuernberg Trial) Exhibit L-180, which is a lengthy report on the activities of Einsatzgruppe A in the Baltic operational area, covering the period 22 Jun-15 Oct 1941. Most of it is reproduced in Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, vol. 7, pp. 978-96.

The author, SS-Brigadefuehrer Dr. jur. Walther Stahlecker, gives a breakdown of his unit in an enclosure (at p. 990 of NCA vol. 7) by branch of service, in which he lists Waffen-SS soldiers as comprising 34.4% (340 of a total of 990 men in Einsatzgruppe A). The order police (Orpo) comprise 13.4%, Gestapo 9 %, auxiliary police 8.8%, the criminal police (Kripo) comprise 4.1%, and the SD 3.5%.

The large Waffen-SS component indicates that Einsatzgruppe service may not have been regarded as a punishment, at least in the early stages of the war in the east.

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