Axis History Forum

This is an apolitical forum for discussions on the Axis nations and related topics hosted by Marcus Wendel's Axis History Factbook in cooperation with Michael Miller's Axis Biographical Research, Christoph Awender's WW2 day by dayand Christian Ankerstjerne’s Panzerworld.

Skip to content

If you found the forum useful please consider supporting us. You can also support us by buying books through the AHF Bookstore.

2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS and Volkssturm.
Hosted by Christoph Awender.

2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 09 Aug 2009 16:43

Hello, someone could help on this topic :

How many sdkfz251/2 mortar carrier and sdkfz251/9 infantry gun platform did 2. Panzer division possess on 01st June 1944 ?
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block on 09 Aug 2009 18:31

Judging by the weapon symbols in the 1.6.1944 status report there were
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 and 12 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 and 12 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the 5./Pz.A.A. 2
2 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 in the 3./Pz.Pi.Btl. 38

Martin Block
Martin Block
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 438
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 12:21
Location: Good old Germany

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 09 Aug 2009 19:17

Hello, Martin, thank for your data.

One more question hope you could help me on SPW : Did 2. Panzer divison possess sdkfz251/10 platoon leader vehicles and sdkfz251/16 flamethrower vehicles. If they possess, how many 2. Pz division had on June 1 1944 ?
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block on 09 Aug 2009 19:54

There are 4 weapon symbols for "leichte Pak" with the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 which point towards the presence of 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/10.

The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block
Martin Block
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 438
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 12:21
Location: Good old Germany

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 10 Aug 2009 04:57

Hello, Martin, thank again for your data. In my opinion, if 2. Pz division only received ten sdkfz 251/16. I think it should be located in 10. Pioneer kompanie ( 4 x vehicles) of 304 PG rgt and 3. kompanie of Pi btn 38.( 6 x vehicles). Normally,5 kompanie/ aufklarung abteilung was not authorized to have sdkfz251/16 and number of flamethrower in both PG regts stabskompanie is too many. But all just my guest.

Thank again :D
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 15 Aug 2009 18:55

[quote The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block[/quote]

Hello, I just check Kamen book that there were Flamm zug in stabskp, your Pi. zug is same as Flamm zug ? BTW, apart from sdkfz251/2, any sdkfz250/7 mortar carrier or mortar ammo carrier distribution in this division ?
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block on 16 Aug 2009 14:33

You're right Kelvin, since all use the basically same tactical symbol I referred to all of them as Pi.Zug (gep.) but more correctly in the Pz.Gren.Rgt. and the Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. I should have labeled them as armored Flamm-Zug, that would have made things clearer.

There were a total of 8 medium mortars listed with the two le.SPW companies of Pz.A.A. 2, which means that there probably there were up to 8 Sd.Kfz. 250/7 mortar carriers available. I do not have any information about the number of Sd.Kfz. 250/7 ammo carriers in Pz.A.A. 2.

Martin Block
Martin Block
Member
Germany
 
Posts: 438
Joined: 17 Apr 2005 12:21
Location: Good old Germany

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 16 Aug 2009 15:27

Hello, Martin, thank you so much. Normally panzer division had two 8 cm mortars each in third and fourth kompanies of Aufklarung abteilung. 2. Panzer division had eight mortar instead of four, it was double the authorized level. What KTsN it based upon ? KTsN 1113 ?
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 27 Aug 2009 14:34

Martin Block wrote:There are 4 weapon symbols for "leichte Pak" with the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 which point towards the presence of 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/10.

The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block


Hi, Martin, just check sdkfz 251/16 specification, there were two flamethrowers in each on sdkfz 251/16, so is it has effect on calculation of number of flamethrowers and sdkfz 251/16 ?

Normally, sdkfz 251/10 were assigned as platoon fuhrer vehicles, why 2. PG regiment did not have any such vehicles ? or replaced by sdkfz 251/17 ?
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Alanmccoubrey on 27 Aug 2009 16:09

There were three flamethrowers in each SdKfz 251/16. The two on the mounts and one with a long hose for dismounted action.
Alan
Alanmccoubrey
Financial supporter
United Kingdom
 
Posts: 1920
Joined: 19 Sep 2008 13:44

Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin on 10 Nov 2009 21:58

Martin Block wrote:You're right Kelvin, since all use the basically same tactical symbol I referred to all of them as Pi.Zug (gep.) but more correctly in the Pz.Gren.Rgt. and the Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. I should have labeled them as armored Flamm-Zug, that would have made things clearer.

There were a total of 8 medium mortars listed with the two le.SPW companies of Pz.A.A. 2, which means that there probably there were up to 8 Sd.Kfz. 250/7 mortar carriers available. I do not have any information about the number of Sd.Kfz. 250/7 ammo carriers in Pz.A.A. 2.

Martin Block


Hello,Martin, I know you are expert in German OOB, I see Dugdale book said that Y symbol mean flamethrower and sometimes on SP. But when you see that Y in German OOB, how can know it is sdkfz251/16 or just normal flame thrower ? Thank
Kelvin
Member
Hong Kong
 
Posts: 1409
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49


Return to Heer, Reichswehr & Waffen-SS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], rossmcpharter and 3 guests