2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

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Kelvin
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2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 09 Aug 2009 16:43

Hello, someone could help on this topic :

How many sdkfz251/2 mortar carrier and sdkfz251/9 infantry gun platform did 2. Panzer division possess on 01st June 1944 ?

Martin Block
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block » 09 Aug 2009 18:31

Judging by the weapon symbols in the 1.6.1944 status report there were
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 and 12 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 and 12 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304
6 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 in the 5./Pz.A.A. 2
2 Sd.Kfz. 251/2 in the 3./Pz.Pi.Btl. 38

Martin Block

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 09 Aug 2009 19:17

Hello, Martin, thank for your data.

One more question hope you could help me on SPW : Did 2. Panzer divison possess sdkfz251/10 platoon leader vehicles and sdkfz251/16 flamethrower vehicles. If they possess, how many 2. Pz division had on June 1 1944 ?

Martin Block
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block » 09 Aug 2009 19:54

There are 4 weapon symbols for "leichte Pak" with the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 which point towards the presence of 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/10.

The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 10 Aug 2009 04:57

Hello, Martin, thank again for your data. In my opinion, if 2. Pz division only received ten sdkfz 251/16. I think it should be located in 10. Pioneer kompanie ( 4 x vehicles) of 304 PG rgt and 3. kompanie of Pi btn 38.( 6 x vehicles). Normally,5 kompanie/ aufklarung abteilung was not authorized to have sdkfz251/16 and number of flamethrower in both PG regts stabskompanie is too many. But all just my guest.

Thank again :D

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 15 Aug 2009 18:55

[quote The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block[/quote]

Hello, I just check Kamen book that there were Flamm zug in stabskp, your Pi. zug is same as Flamm zug ? BTW, apart from sdkfz251/2, any sdkfz250/7 mortar carrier or mortar ammo carrier distribution in this division ?

Martin Block
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Martin Block » 16 Aug 2009 14:33

You're right Kelvin, since all use the basically same tactical symbol I referred to all of them as Pi.Zug (gep.) but more correctly in the Pz.Gren.Rgt. and the Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. I should have labeled them as armored Flamm-Zug, that would have made things clearer.

There were a total of 8 medium mortars listed with the two le.SPW companies of Pz.A.A. 2, which means that there probably there were up to 8 Sd.Kfz. 250/7 mortar carriers available. I do not have any information about the number of Sd.Kfz. 250/7 ammo carriers in Pz.A.A. 2.

Martin Block

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 16 Aug 2009 15:27

Hello, Martin, thank you so much. Normally panzer division had two 8 cm mortars each in third and fourth kompanies of Aufklarung abteilung. 2. Panzer division had eight mortar instead of four, it was double the authorized level. What KTsN it based upon ? KTsN 1113 ?

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 27 Aug 2009 14:34

Martin Block wrote:There are 4 weapon symbols for "leichte Pak" with the I./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 which point towards the presence of 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/10.

The 2. Pz.Div. had received 10 Sd.Kfz. 251/16 during Jan/Feb 1944 but on 1.6.1944 flamethrower weapon symbols possibly mounted on AFVs appeared with the
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 2 (11)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (12)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 10.(Pi.)/Pz.Gren.Rgt. 304 (4)
Pi.Zug (gep.) in 5.(s.)/Pz.A.A. 2 (6)
3.(gep.)/Pz.Pi.Btl. 38 (6)
I am unable to tell how many of these 39 flamethrowers actually were mounted on m.SPW and who had them. Under normal circumstances Sd.Kfz. 251/16 were only issued to Stabskp./Pz.Gren.Rgt. and Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. so IMHO that would be the most likely candidates.

Martin Block


Hi, Martin, just check sdkfz 251/16 specification, there were two flamethrowers in each on sdkfz 251/16, so is it has effect on calculation of number of flamethrowers and sdkfz 251/16 ?

Normally, sdkfz 251/10 were assigned as platoon fuhrer vehicles, why 2. PG regiment did not have any such vehicles ? or replaced by sdkfz 251/17 ?

Alanmccoubrey
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Alanmccoubrey » 27 Aug 2009 16:09

There were three flamethrowers in each SdKfz 251/16. The two on the mounts and one with a long hose for dismounted action.
Alan

Kelvin
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Re: 2. Panzer divison 's sdkfz251/2 and sdkfz251/9

Postby Kelvin » 10 Nov 2009 21:58

Martin Block wrote:You're right Kelvin, since all use the basically same tactical symbol I referred to all of them as Pi.Zug (gep.) but more correctly in the Pz.Gren.Rgt. and the Pz.Gren.Pi.Kp. I should have labeled them as armored Flamm-Zug, that would have made things clearer.

There were a total of 8 medium mortars listed with the two le.SPW companies of Pz.A.A. 2, which means that there probably there were up to 8 Sd.Kfz. 250/7 mortar carriers available. I do not have any information about the number of Sd.Kfz. 250/7 ammo carriers in Pz.A.A. 2.

Martin Block


Hello,Martin, I know you are expert in German OOB, I see Dugdale book said that Y symbol mean flamethrower and sometimes on SP. But when you see that Y in German OOB, how can know it is sdkfz251/16 or just normal flame thrower ? Thank


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