Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

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GatowKind
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#31

Post by GatowKind » 28 Apr 2013, 19:50

Hi,

This is outside oranienburger urban station I went there today - I will try upload the picture.

GatowKind
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#32

Post by GatowKind » 29 Apr 2013, 00:15

Hi,

This is the site of the fallen officer at Oranienburger U-Bahn station top end Friedrichstrasse.

Hope it provides clarity.
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image.jpg
Site of fallen officer
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DukeMarquarth
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#33

Post by DukeMarquarth » 22 May 2013, 19:52

Surely there must be a list of officers of Rgt 24 Danmark with that rank, who died around that time?

Lasse
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#34

Post by Lasse » 26 May 2013, 23:43

Yes, as I said previously my friend went through the list of SS-Hstuf.:s from Rgt. 24 "Danmark" who are missing/KIA in Berlin, and there is only one man who matches. I have however forgotten the name.

Shadwell_army
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#35

Post by Shadwell_army » 09 Jun 2013, 16:22

According to the grandchild of Hermann Lührs its supposed to be him on the photo.

look at the comments below the photo http://stabswache-de-euros.blogspot.se/ ... norge.html

@Lasse, does it correspond with the lists of your friend?

Cheers, Mads

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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#36

Post by George Lepre » 09 Jun 2013, 17:04

Great info, Mads. Thank you.

George

Blanusa
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#37

Post by Blanusa » 11 Jun 2013, 15:41

Hello,

I'm not entirely certain that the body of the unidentified SS-Hstuf is the body of Hermann Lührs. According to available information, Hermann Lührs was severely wounded on 24.04.1945 and could because of this not be evacuated. At that point he chose to take his own life rather than let himself be captured by Soviet forces. I have not seen this information refuted yet, so I hold it as true until proven otherwise.
So, taking into consideration the date of death of Hermann Lührs, it is likely not his body that was photographed on Friedrichstrasse on or shortly after 02.05.1945. To elaborate on my scepticism, it would mean that the body was laying in the open for 8 days or more. I'm not an expert in the medical field, but from what I could read, the body would have gone through several stages of decomposition during that time and would most definitively not have been in this state. If I were to guess, the photograph of the dead SS-Hstuf was taken shortly after the hostilities had ended on 02.05.1945.
There are no Danish SS-Hstuf unaccounted for from the fighting in Berlin. There is however one German SS-Hstuf from SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.24 "Danmark" who is listed as missing in action in April 1945 and whose fate is still unknown. It is SS-Hstuf Gerhard Kersten (b.23.11.1915 in Oppeln) and he served within the regimental staff at that time. John P. Moore lists him twice in his Führerliste der Waffen-SS, once under this name and once under the name Gerhard Knosalla. Some of the facial features of Kersten appear to match those of the dead SS-Hstuf, but there is no way to definitively identify him. So, as Lasse said, I drew the conclusion that it is a strong possibility that the unidentified SS-Hstuf is Gerhard Kersten.

I attached a photo of Gerhard Kersten from the magazine Der Freiwillige from May 1956.


Best regards
Blanusa

GatowKind
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#38

Post by GatowKind » 12 Jun 2013, 01:37

Hi,

I have looked at these pictures over and over and reckon you could be right.
The finger-tips are all shaded which makes me think this body is dead maybe a couple days at most.
The 'live' photo doesn't have the square jaw of the deceased soldier, but I know that a body dead even a short period can thicken below the jaw, and with the muscles relaxed this can alter a profile.
How does this correlate with the sash tied round the waste though - that doesn't seem to fit the pattern of a Charlemagne soldier.

Is there any further detail on that perhaps?

GK

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Inselaffe
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#39

Post by Inselaffe » 12 Jun 2013, 12:18

GatowKind wrote:How does this correlate with the sash tied round the waste though - that doesn't seem to fit the pattern of a Charlemagne soldier.
Hello GatowKind, Have a look further up this thread. He's almost certainly from Danmark. The 'sash' thing was discussed either on this thread or on the duplicate (I put a link to that on this one some years ago!). The conclusion seems to be it's not a sash or belt but the gap between his tunic and trousers where these have become rucked up and shows a pale coloured shirt or vest.

Cheers
"It was like Hungary being between Germany and the Soviet Union. What sort of choice was that? Which language would you like your firing squad to speak?" Tibor Fischer 'Under the Frog'.

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Inselaffe
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#40

Post by Inselaffe » 12 Jun 2013, 12:32

So, it looks like this deceased person is either Lührs or Kersten? That's a big step forward from the last time I was looking at this thread. Can anyone post a picture of Lührs? Although nmy's arguement is convincing regarding why it probably isn't him.

Cheers
"It was like Hungary being between Germany and the Soviet Union. What sort of choice was that? Which language would you like your firing squad to speak?" Tibor Fischer 'Under the Frog'.

Shadwell_army
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#41

Post by Shadwell_army » 12 Jun 2013, 17:41

On a Russian site someone is also mentioning Kersten as a possibility:

http://reibert.info/threads/11-%D1%8F-% ... st-2412398

But it doesnt make sense to me that a German SS officer is wearing a Danish flag insignia. Anyone who has a logic explanation for this?

Cheers, Mads

Blanusa
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#42

Post by Blanusa » 12 Jun 2013, 19:00

Hi Mads,

Not surprising to see the information spread. I came to this conclusion in January 2011 and posted my research findings on a Danish forum on 9 February 2011, where it has been available for anyone to see. But as far as I know I am the only one to have come to this conclusion. Everyone else I have been in contact with in regards to this unidentified SS-Hstuf were convinced that it had to be a Danish officer. But, like I mentioned earlier, there are no Danish officers unaccounted for from the fighting in Berlin. Unless there is one completely unknown to everyone, even to those who's focus is the Danish volunteers.
My interest lie not in uniforms, so I can't say anything for certain, but I do not find it odd. I have seen photographs of W-SS soldiers wearing the WH eagle instead of the SS eagle on their sleeves. Maybe this SS-Hstuf lost his original uniform jacket and received one with all the insignia already sown on, or the regulations were not that strict or clear for the use of the shield. Hopefully some other forum member with knowledge in uniforms can shed more light on this.


Best regards
Blanusa

Shadwell_army
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#43

Post by Shadwell_army » 13 Jun 2013, 15:44

Hi Blanusa,

Do you have a link to the danish forum?

Regarding the Danish flag arm shield, I agree with you that its common to see field made changes to insignias etc. but this arm shield was supposed to be only for ethnic Danes, and I never heard of non-Danish volunteers wearing it (except 2 young local Russian boys that were "adopted" by the Danes). btw the arm shield was either produced in Denmark or field made.

Obviously the guy on the photo could have "borrowed" the jacket from a Danish officer, but honestly I dont think that anyone would want to wear an SS-officer jacket during those last days in Berlin. On the contrary Danish veterans tell that they tried to cover or simply get rid of their SS-uniforms. Especially when taking into consideration that he had access to WH and FJ equipment, it just doesnt make sense that he wasnt Danish, but who knows, lots of strange things happened in those last days.

I only see 3 possibilities. Either the guy on the photo was an unknown Dane, if it really is a German officer (Kersten or Lührs) he could have got the arm shield out of loyalty to his Danish friends or the photo is simply just staged by the Soviets for propaganda purposes.

Cheers, Mads

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Semenov
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#44

Post by Semenov » 13 Jun 2013, 18:33

Shadwell_army wrote:On a Russian site someone is also mentioning Kersten as a possibility:
http://reibert.info/threads/11-%D1%8F-% ... st-2412398
Hi, Mads!

or SS-Hstuf. Knossalla Gerhard
Shadwell_army wrote:But it doesnt make sense to me that a German SS officer is wearing a Danish flag insignia. Anyone who has a logic explanation for this?
Cheers, Mads
Some German officiers wears foreign national schield - Knochlein (23 Rgt./11 SS-Div.), Kruger, Strekenbach (latvian units) & other

Blanusa
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Re: Fallen Officer, Berlin 45

#45

Post by Blanusa » 13 Jun 2013, 21:34

Hello!

Mads,

It is the forum of http://www.4045.dk/.


Semenov,

Like I mentioned earlier, Kersten and Knossalla are the same person. John P. Moore, in his Führerliste der Waffen-SS, even wrote Kersten in parentheses under the name of Knossalla, noting that it is the same person and he gives the same SS-Nr, date and place of birth in both entries.


Best regards
Blanusa

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