David Irving Stops Sale of Evans Book

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Tarpon27
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David Irving Stops Sale of Evans Book

#1

Post by Tarpon27 » 07 Mar 2003, 23:10

Thanks to forum member CCCC for providing me a link to this story.
News - Latest


Amazon drops Irving trial book 06 March 2003


Amazon.co.uk has removed from sale "Telling Lies About Hitler" (Verso) by Richard Evans following an approach by David Irving, the discredited historian. The case is a further instance of how retailers can have the defence of innocent dissemination undermined if the subject of a book alleges to them that the book is defamatory.

Professor Evans' book is an account of the libel trial--at which he was the chief defence witness--of Irving against Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt, author of "Denying the Holocaust". Irving lost the case, and was described by the judge as someone who "displayed all the characteristics of an active Holocaust denier". Wm Heinemann, which was to have published "Telling Lies About Hitler", dropped it on legal advice. Verso brought it out last summer.

Amazon.co.uk said: "We will not list 'Telling Lies About Hitler' by Richard Evans or any other book over the objections of someone claiming that the book contains defamatory content, at least not without a commitment by the publisher to defend us in any legal action brought against us under UK law." Gavin Everall, sales and marketing director at Verso, said that he did not want to indemnify a retailer that had already destocked the book. Amazon added that the law as it stood had "a chilling effect on free speech".

http://www.thebookseller.com/?pid=4&did=3911

_Goebbels: Mastermind of the Third Reich_ was going to be the book that redeemed David Irving's career. Based on his usuual prodigious mining of wartime archives, the book was nearly written when, in the spring of 1992, a German friend told Irving that the complete set of Goebbels's diaries, which had been microfilmed and stored on glass plates, had recently surfaced in the Russian State Archives. Armed with a commission from the _Sunday Times_, Irving raced to Moscow to secure his scoop. Though much of the diaries had already been published, there were substantial gaps, and Irving's "discovery" put him back on the front pages.

Not all publicity is good publicity. Irving's return to prominence courtesy of the _Sunday Times_, which agreed to pay him 75,000 [pounds] to "edit" the Goebbels diaries, sparked a wave of protest from London to New York. The intensity of these protests lost Irving his fee from the _Sunday Times_, who cancelled their agreement; he also lost his American publisher, Scribners, and his British publisher, Macmillian, who not only rejected the Goebbels manuscript but also ordered the remaining stocks of two of his other books destroyed. All of this, it is worth noting, happened before Deborah Lipstadt published a word about David Irving. [Emphasis mine]

[...]

Irving's defenders assumed that what he really wanted was a debate with his critics, If that were indeed his objective, all Irving had to do was bide his time. "Someone," Hitchens asserted confidently, "will no doubt pick up where St. Martin's left off."

What Irving did instead was sue Deborah Lipstadt and her publisher for libel in England (where even if she won Lipstadt's costs would amount to hundreds of thousands of pounds). At which point it became rather more difficult to defend the proposition that what was at stake was David Irving's freedom of speech.

pp. 55-7

Her British experience was rather different. In March 1995 Penguin issued a paperback edition, which sold 2,088 copies in the United Kingdom in its first year. Outside the Jewish press, reviewers ignored it. In 1996, the year Deborah Lipstadt was served with David Irving's writ, net British sales for _Denying the Holocaust_ numbered exactly 21.

p. 80

D. D. Guttenplan, _The Holocaust on Trial_

It appears that the main threat to freedom of speech is to attempt to publish or sell any work in the UK that is critical of the work of David Irving. Including the massive sales of 2,109 books that "libeled" him.

Regards,

Mark

CCCC
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Telling Lies For Hitler

#2

Post by CCCC » 08 Mar 2003, 16:45

There is a report out today, that it was worry of possible libel action by Irving over Evans' book, which made Amazon withdraw it's sale.


walterkaschner
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#3

Post by walterkaschner » 08 Mar 2003, 22:00

The US edition of Evan's book, "Lying About Hitler", is still available through Amazon.com here in the US, and at a very attractive price for a used copy. That should tell us something about the difference between the US and British libel law, particularly as Irving now lives in the US.

Regards, Kaschner

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Maple 01
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#4

Post by Maple 01 » 08 Mar 2003, 22:24

Having bored the community to death with Evans' book I feel it's my duty to ask Mr Smith, Tonyh and Dan to step forward and condemn Irving's attempts to ban free speech in the UK. Perhaps he should concentrate on paying off his legal debts rather than spreading denialist c**p and making more libel threats.

regards


-Nick

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witness
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#5

Post by witness » 08 Mar 2003, 22:36

Maple 01
Having bored the community to death with Evans' book
Not at all. I read the book and I am quite interested to find out different opinions.
Frankly I used to like Irving's books but after Evan's exposure of all these manipulations ( Dresden death toll exaggeration, distortion of the Ribbentrop -Hitler-Horthy meetimg etc) I think reasonable people could not trust Irving anymore as a reliable historian.
Quite a pity that he chose this path -the man is obviously gifted. :(

Dan
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#6

Post by Dan » 09 Mar 2003, 01:30

Mr. Kaschner, he still lives in the UK, and is there now, but visits the US often.

As for me condeming Irving, after the tricks played on him, getting him arrested, blackmailing his publishers, hiring rent a mobs to vandalize his house, forging information in the data bases of various countries and various other things, I wont be very strident in condeming him, but I have said in the past that he should quit with the legal challenges and stick with writing. I've said it several times on this board, and I wonder what more Maple would like from me.

As to Evan's book, we've discussed in depth one passage in 30 published books so far, and as David said, it wasn't a very earth-shattering example of deseption. Perhaps it would be of more value to our community to continue discussing the various examples of historical manipulation Irving is guilty of than to call for a condemnation from a manual laborer like me.

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Maple 01
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#7

Post by Maple 01 » 09 Mar 2003, 01:55

I think that's a begrudging acknowledgement form Dan!
I wont be very strident in condemning him, but I have said in the past that he should quit with the legal challenges and stick with writing. I've said it several times on this board, and I wonder what more Maple would like from me.
Just an admission that he's a discredited source is fine by me, the problem is when Irving was busy suing everyone who spoke out against him he was trying to shut-down their free speech - but if anyone dared to say his more 'vivid' (i.e. wildly false) books should be pulled he would squeal like a stuck pig about his 'freedom of speech' and all his holocaust denying chums would spring to his defence. Yet again we see that Irving’s commitment to free speech only extends to David Irving
Perhaps it would be of more value to our community to continue discussing the various examples of historical manipulation Irving is guilty of than to call for a condemnation from a manual laborer like me
No, I'm quite happy pointing out what a hypocritical, lying, deceitful, manipulative busted flush the Holocaust denier David Irving is for now thank-you. And it matters not that you are a manual labourer, we are all equal under the forum! (Did that sound vaguely Communist?)

So only Mr Smith and Tonyh to go!

Regards




-Nick

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#8

Post by Dan » 09 Mar 2003, 02:16

Just an admission that he's a discredited source is fine by me
And if Mrs. Rommel chose him to give her several hundred letters from her husband to, shoud we disregard them?

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#9

Post by Maple 01 » 09 Mar 2003, 02:34

Best thing he can do is pass them on to a real historian

Regards


-nick

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#10

Post by Dan » 09 Mar 2003, 02:45

Would you trust Deborah Lipstadt?

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Maple 01
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#11

Post by Maple 01 » 09 Mar 2003, 02:46

More than Irving

Is she the only historian in your Lexicon?


Regards

-Nick

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#12

Post by Dan » 09 Mar 2003, 02:49

No, but she ranks lower than Irving in mine, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. You see, three lies in 5 pages trumps 17 lies in 30 books.

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#13

Post by Maple 01 » 09 Mar 2003, 03:02

three lies in 5 pages trumps 17 lies in 30 books.
Oh I see, 3 minor errors (one page in the judges summing up)

17 Major lies (and that from a small cross sample of Irving’s books) and 330 pages of ridicule in the summing up - OK I see how your mind works.

Did you ever work for the Ministry of Truth in SA?

Oh the topic concerns Irving suppressing free speech I’m glad you admit his double standards.

Regards


-Nick

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#14

Post by CCCC » 09 Mar 2003, 03:16

Irving cannot be brushed aside so easily. He is an acknowledged world authority on his subject. In my assessment, rightly or wrongly, in time to come Ms Lipstadt will stand in relation to Irving, as for example Razumovsky stands to Beethoven.

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#15

Post by Dan » 09 Mar 2003, 03:17

As a gentlemen, I will give you the last word.

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