Czech parliament decision
- Oleg Grigoryev
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Czech parliament decision
Today parliament of the Czech Republic decided that president Benesh decree that caused deportation of 3 million of Sudet Germans and confiscation of their property were legal and fully justified refused to revoke them or apologies for them. In the light of imminent acceptance of Czech Republic into European Union it was under pressure from Germany and Austria to proclaim these orders unlawful. I wonder what mr. Wildbora will make of that.
Sudetenland
Fully justified?
This is very sad.
This is very sad.
This is a quote from Radio Free Europe News 23/4/2002
According to news agency CTK:
I'm puzzled by the final statement: The Decretes are not applicable at present but their legal and prpoperty relations are unquestionable, inviolable and unchangeable?????TEXT OF CZECH RESOLUTION ON BENES DECREES MADE PUBLIC
The text of the draft resolution on the Benes Decrees agreed on by the parliamentary parties represented in the Chamber of Deputies was released for publication on 22 April, CTK reported. The draft says that the chamber "rejects attempts to open issues connected with the end and with the results of World War II." It also says that membership in the EU based on "good neighborly relations" is considered a priority of Czech foreign policy, and that Czech legislation on property restitution is "the exclusive prerogative of Czech constitutional bodies." The resolution stresses that the Benes Decrees reflected postwar realities and are not applicable at present, while at the same time "legal and property relations" stemming from those decrees are "unquestionable, inviolable, and unchangeable." MS
According to news agency CTK:
Chamber of Deputies insists on Benes decrees in resolution
- 24.4.
PRAGUE, April 24 (CTK) - The legal and property relations ensuing from the postwar legislation and presidential decrees are unquestionable, inviolable and unchangeable, the Chamber of Deputies said in a resolution passed today.
The wording of the resolution was agreed upon by chairmen of five parliamentary parties on Friday. All 169 members of the Chamber of Deputies who were present voted for the resolution.
The Chamber of Deputies stated that "the post-war laws and presidential decrees were implemented (consumed) in the period after they were issued and no new legal relations can be established on their basis any longer today."
The Chamber of Deputies said that the Czechoslovak legislation from 1940-1945, including the presidential decrees, was created, like in other European countries, as a consequence of the war and defeat of Nazism.
The Chamber of Deputies today rejected the attempts to open issues connected with the end and results of World War Two and stated that the extent and conditions of the restitution legislation are completely and exclusively in the power of Czech constitutional bodies.
The Chamber emphasised the importance of the Czech-German declaration from 1997 and its will not to burden the future by political and legal issues stemming from the past.
The Chamber confirmed that good neighbourghly relations and the Czech Republic's full-fledged membership of the European Union ranked among the priorities of the Czech Republic's foreign policy.
The position of the Chamber of Deputies is a reaction to the demands by German, Austrin and Hungarian right-wing politicians and members of Sudeten German organisations who have escalated their criticism of the Benes decress in the past months. Some of them even want to make the Czech Republic's admission to the EU conditional on the abolition of the decrees.
Under the decrees issued by former Czechoslovak president Edvard Benes after the war, members of the ethnic German minority were stripped of their property and Czechoslovak citizenship. The decrees thus provided for the deportation of some 2.5 million Germans, mainly Sudeten ones (living in the borderland). Most of them now live in Germany, mainly Bavaria, and Austria.
The decrees also prepared the same fate to ethnic Hungarians, but their deportation was stopped after a time.
The decrees followed the Potsdam agreement made by the victorious powers after World War Two.
Czech politicians consider the calls for the abolition of the decrees to be attempts to revise the post-war settlement and question the current property settlement in the Czech Republic.
The idea to issue a joint parliamentary statement on the Benes decrees was submitted by opposition Civic Democrats (ODS) chairman Vaclav Klaus and Premier Milos Zeman (ruling Social Democrats, CSSD).
The proposal was joined by the Communists. The opposition Christian Democrats (KDU-CSL) and the Freedom Union-DEU first preferred to issue a statement of the leaders of the ODS, CSSD, KDU-CSL and Freedom Union-DEU only but finally they, too, accepted the parliamentary resolution.
Re: Czech parliament decision
For once I don't think we need Mr. Wildboar. I consider this a very unfortunate decision and hope Germany and Austria will react to it in a deservedly tough manner.oleg wrote:Today parliament of the Czech Republic decided that president Benesh decree that caused deportation of 3 million of Sudet Germans and confiscation of their property were legal and fully justified refused to revoke them or apologies for them. In the light of imminent acceptance of Czech Republic into European Union it was under pressure from Germany and Austria to proclaim these orders unlawful. I wonder what mr. Wildbora will make of that.
- Oleg Grigoryev
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Re: Czech parliament decision
They probaly will but that was not mine point. Wildbora usually tries to pin the expolusion of Germans on USSR exclusvely, so that made me wonder would he declare these resolution the work of evil Soviets as well.medorjurgen wrote:For once I don't think we need Mr. Wildboar. I consider this a very unfortunate decision and hope Germany and Austria will react to it in a deservedly tough manner.oleg wrote:Today parliament of the Czech Republic decided that president Benesh decree that caused deportation of 3 million of Sudet Germans and confiscation of their property were legal and fully justified refused to revoke them or apologies for them. In the light of imminent acceptance of Czech Republic into European Union it was under pressure from Germany and Austria to proclaim these orders unlawful. I wonder what mr. Wildbora will make of that.
Re: Czech parliament decision
In this respect, I agree with you. The USSR had little if anything to do with the expulsion of ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, which if I'm not mistaken did not even have a Communist government when this happened.oleg wrote:They probaly will but that was not mine point. Wildbora usually tries to pin the expolusion of Germans on USSR exclusvely, so that made me wonder would he declare these resolution the work of evil Soviets as well.medorjurgen wrote:For once I don't think we need Mr. Wildboar. I consider this a very unfortunate decision and hope Germany and Austria will react to it in a deservedly tough manner.oleg wrote:Today parliament of the Czech Republic decided that president Benesh decree that caused deportation of 3 million of Sudet Germans and confiscation of their property were legal and fully justified refused to revoke them or apologies for them. In the light of imminent acceptance of Czech Republic into European Union it was under pressure from Germany and Austria to proclaim these orders unlawful. I wonder what mr. Wildbora will make of that.
Re: Czech parliament decision
I completely agree with you. It is time for German property to be given back. The Czechs fear that the property of expelled Germans would have to be given back if they did not take the stance that they have at the present time.meinungen wrote:For once I don't think we need Mr. Wildboar. I consider this a very unfortunate decision and hope Germany and Austria will react to it in a deservedly tough manner.oleg wrote:Today parliament of the Czech Republic decided that president Benesh decree that caused deportation of 3 million of Sudet Germans and confiscation of their property were legal and fully justified refused to revoke them or apologies for them. In the light of imminent acceptance of Czech Republic into European Union it was under pressure from Germany and Austria to proclaim these orders unlawful. I wonder what mr. Wildbora will make of that.
Re: Czech parliament decision
Amen. We are all of one blood, and all deserve restitution for wrongs.I consider this a very unfortunate decision and hope Germany and Austria will react to it in a deservedly tough manner
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Partially correct. The Communist members of the Government took full control in a coup in early 1948, when the non-Communist members were expelled and Masaryk died (whether by suicide or murder is unclear).The USSR had little if anything to do with the expulsion of ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, which if I'm not mistaken did not even have a Communist government when this happened.
However, ever since 1945 there had been Communists in the Czechoslovak Government, occupying key positions and able to wield decisive influence.
Nevertheless, the decision to expel the Sudeten Germans was probably not down to the Communists alone, but represented the will of the majority of the Czech people.
The influence and power of a particular party within a coalition government cannot be measured solely by the number of its members within that government. The government that came to power in January 1933, replacing that of Schleicher, was a coalition with only three Nazis in the Cabinet (Hitler as Chancellor, Goering, and, I think, Roehm), and of these only Hitler held a position of real power. Even so, within a few months the Nazis had sole power, and all other parties were excluded. In post-war Czechoslovakia, the Communists took longer to achieve the same end.
Yes, I think the Czechs screwed up in this case. I don't see why they shouldn't apologize and at least give somthing to the people who are still alive, more as a symbolic gesture than anything else. I mean, no one should seriously expect eastern European nations to pay back everything. That wouldn't be practical, and could lead to instability in the region.
It should be interesting to see what Poland does in the next few years. As yet, no one has been compensated for anything the communists did, not the Jews nor the Poles (including my family). So it's not like the ethnic Germans are being singled out.
It should be interesting to see what Poland does in the next few years. As yet, no one has been compensated for anything the communists did, not the Jews nor the Poles (including my family). So it's not like the ethnic Germans are being singled out.
Soviet Union was still responsible for expulsion of Germans
Oleg,
Your statement that USSR had nothing to do with expulsion of germans from Czeckoslovaka just correct on paper but it eludes ground reality completely since the czeckoslovakian or polish government at that time lacked any force which could had carried such order ,moreover these governments daily survival depended on presence of soviet army.
In such case had Stalin refused to let czechs and poles to use soviet army to carry out this order it would not had been implemented and just remained as slogan, but stalin's permission to use soviet army to carry out expulsions which made them possible make soviet union solely responsible for it.
had stalin refused to do it and stopped the expulsions then he would had been remebered differently not as Butcher as history knows him today
Your statement that USSR had nothing to do with expulsion of germans from Czeckoslovaka just correct on paper but it eludes ground reality completely since the czeckoslovakian or polish government at that time lacked any force which could had carried such order ,moreover these governments daily survival depended on presence of soviet army.
In such case had Stalin refused to let czechs and poles to use soviet army to carry out this order it would not had been implemented and just remained as slogan, but stalin's permission to use soviet army to carry out expulsions which made them possible make soviet union solely responsible for it.
had stalin refused to do it and stopped the expulsions then he would had been remebered differently not as Butcher as history knows him today
Re: Soviet Union was still responsible for expulsion of Ger
Can my friend provide any evidence that Soviet troops were used to enforce the expulsion of ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, or is that also just something he heard from the father of a friend of his?In such case had Stalin refused to let czechs and poles to use soviet army to carry out this order it would not had been implemented and just remained as slogan, but stalin's permission to use soviet army to carry out expulsions which made them possible make soviet union solely responsible for it.
Why, the Ukrainian peasants starved to death by Stalin, the victims of the purges, the Chechens and Crimean Tatars forcibly deported after the Red Army had reconquered their homelands, etc., etc., don't seem to matter a thing to Mr. Wildboar. If Stalin was responsible for the death of Aryan ethnic Germans, he was a butcher. If he only killed his own sub-human Soviet citizens, he was not. Very instructive reasoning.had stalin refused to do it and stopped the expulsions then he would had been remebered differently not as Butcher as history knows him today
Medorjurgen i do not belive in double standards
Medorjurgen wrote,
Roberto i do not belive in any double standards regarding stalinist atrocites and i have mentioned about it in old soviet union forum on few occasions infact they matter to me as is the case with pre-planned soviet atrocities against german civiliansWhy, the Ukrainian peasants starved to death by Stalin, the victims of the purges, the Chechens and Crimean Tatars forcibly deported after the Red Army had reconquered their homelands, etc., etc., don't seem to matter a thing to Mr. Wildboar. If Stalin was responsible for the death of Aryan ethnic Germans, he was a butcher. If he only killed his own sub-human Soviet citizens, he was not. Very instructive reasoning.
Re: Medorjurgen i do not belive in double standards
Again the “pre-planned Soviet atrocities”, my friend? The atrocities I have no doubt about, but I’ve seen nothing by way of a plan so far.wildboar wrote:Medorjurgen wrote,
Roberto i do not belive in any double standards regarding stalinist atrocites and i have mentioned about it in old soviet union forum on few occasions infact they matter to me as is the case with pre-planned soviet atrocities against german civiliansWhy, the Ukrainian peasants starved to death by Stalin, the victims of the purges, the Chechens and Crimean Tatars forcibly deported after the Red Army had reconquered their homelands, etc., etc., don't seem to matter a thing to Mr. Wildboar. If Stalin was responsible for the death of Aryan ethnic Germans, he was a butcher. If he only killed his own sub-human Soviet citizens, he was not. Very instructive reasoning.