Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Hi all,
I have an issue regarding two Waffen-SS soldiers that came from Indonesia.
Robin Lumsden in his book 'A Collectors Guide To: The Waffen-SS' states that there were two Volksdeutsche from Sumatra.
Sumatra is apparently an island in western part of Indonesia.
At that time, Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch (before Japan came and also occupied it) and the country was known as Dutch East Indies.
One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier.
Moreover, I am interested with the details about this story if anyone could help me.
Any information and evidence would be very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Edpin
I have an issue regarding two Waffen-SS soldiers that came from Indonesia.
Robin Lumsden in his book 'A Collectors Guide To: The Waffen-SS' states that there were two Volksdeutsche from Sumatra.
Sumatra is apparently an island in western part of Indonesia.
At that time, Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch (before Japan came and also occupied it) and the country was known as Dutch East Indies.
One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier.
Moreover, I am interested with the details about this story if anyone could help me.
Any information and evidence would be very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Edpin
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Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Note that born in Indonesia (or better: the Dutch East Indies because Indonesia did not exist as a nation at that time) does not necessarily mean Asian blood. There were probably quite a lot SS members from the Dutch East Indies as a lot of Dutch families lived there. For example SS-Sturmbannführer Frederik van Dierman was born in Ngawi at Java, SS-Obersturmführer Jan van der Hoeven (who served in the Landstorm Nederland division) was born in Semarang at Java and SS-Hauptsturmführer Gerard Dijkema was born in Buitenzorg, also at Java. SS-Hauptsturmführer Johannes Ilcken was also born in Surabaya and SS-Hauptsturmführer Pieter Schleurholtz-Boerma was born in Batavia at Java.
That's just a quick scan of half of John Moore's Führerliste so there are bound more and that's just the officers. Java was the main governmental isle but with administrative offices and huge plantations on dozens of islands no doubt some Dutch members of the SS were born at Sumatra (the second largest island of Indonesia).
That's just a quick scan of half of John Moore's Führerliste so there are bound more and that's just the officers. Java was the main governmental isle but with administrative offices and huge plantations on dozens of islands no doubt some Dutch members of the SS were born at Sumatra (the second largest island of Indonesia).
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Not to mention the German nationals born in the Dutch East Indies who served in the Wehrmacht, like f.e. Dr. Helmut Schreiber from IR16 who was born at Sumatra.
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Harro,
Thanks a lot for the information you provided
That is really an interesting story. However, I'd like to know more about this.
Is there any way I could obtain the references that contain details about this (literatures/books or internet sources)?
Or John Moore's Führerliste you mentioned before, where can I obtain it?
Ypenburg,
Thanks a lot also for the information you shared
I dont know if there's a soldier from Sumatra who served in the Wehrmacht (I believe that you mean is Heer/Army).
Thanks a lot for the information you provided
That is really an interesting story. However, I'd like to know more about this.
Is there any way I could obtain the references that contain details about this (literatures/books or internet sources)?
Or John Moore's Führerliste you mentioned before, where can I obtain it?
Ypenburg,
Thanks a lot also for the information you shared
I dont know if there's a soldier from Sumatra who served in the Wehrmacht (I believe that you mean is Heer/Army).
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Another soldier from Sumatra is Fritz Schneewind. Born in Padang town in Sumatra, he served as an U-Boat commander and sunk with his ship in Java Sea, Indonesia/East Indies!
There was issues that Meinout Rost van Tonningen (born in Soerabaja, Java), the NSB leader, have Indonesian blood. Thus, Himmler personally rejected his intention to join with SS during early phase of war, but finally give him permission to join SS 'Landstorm Nederland' in final years of war, after the SS finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race.
There was issues that Meinout Rost van Tonningen (born in Soerabaja, Java), the NSB leader, have Indonesian blood. Thus, Himmler personally rejected his intention to join with SS during early phase of war, but finally give him permission to join SS 'Landstorm Nederland' in final years of war, after the SS finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race.
Last edited by ninoo on 15 Jun 2012, 03:14, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
ninoo,
Thanks for your information.
I think I've seen the graveyard of German U-boot crews in Indonesia, but I can't remember the exact location.
Thanks for your information.
I think I've seen the graveyard of German U-boot crews in Indonesia, but I can't remember the exact location.
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
The graveyard is in West Java.Edpin wrote:ninoo,
Thanks for your information.
I think I've seen the graveyard of German U-boot crews in Indonesia, but I can't remember the exact location.
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
ninoo,
That's interesting about Fritz Schneewind, I've checked the following link:
http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1103.html
However, back to the first topic, the one I want to know is the two men from Sumatra who joined the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland. Whether the man on the picture is one of these two men.
Also, any references related to this discussion would be great (such as John Moore's Führerliste that Harro mentioned earlier).
That's interesting about Fritz Schneewind, I've checked the following link:
http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1103.html
However, back to the first topic, the one I want to know is the two men from Sumatra who joined the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland. Whether the man on the picture is one of these two men.
Also, any references related to this discussion would be great (such as John Moore's Führerliste that Harro mentioned earlier).
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
I'm not sure that the two Volksdeutsche (ethnic-German) join with the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland, and I don't think that the pic above is one of them.Edpin wrote:ninoo,
That's interesting about Fritz Schneewind, I've checked the following link:
http://www.uboat.net/men/commanders/1103.html
However, back to the first topic, the one I want to know is the two men from Sumatra who joined the 23.Pzgr.Div. Nederland. Whether the man on the picture is one of these two men.
Also, any references related to this discussion would be great (such as John Moore's Führerliste that Harro mentioned earlier).
I read this info from chapter Volksduetsche volunteers of the list of foreign volunteers in Antonio Munoz's "Forgotten Legions" and he didn't said name of those volunteers and which unit that they served.
The pic above came from Rickmenspoel's "Waffen-SS Encyclopedia" and not much info about who is the volunteer except he served in the SS Landstorm Nederland Division and killed by an US paratrooper in Nijmegen. Most probably he was an Eurasian (Dutch-Indo) than full Indonesian (in fact, a pseudo-historian in an Indonesian military magazine claim that he was a Javanese, even when Rickmenspoel, the first person that told about this strange volunteer, didn't said like that).
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
ninoo,
That's really a nice story you shared, mate.
I think I've seen the history of that soldier in an Indonesian military magazine you mentioned before, the one I read is 'Angkasa' collection edition (if I'm not mistaken).
Unfortunately, it only tells the short history in one column.
It's rather difficult to obtain the full details about this story. Perhaps because the genuine evidence is not well provided.
Anyway, thanks for your info, ninoo.
That's really a nice story you shared, mate.
I think I've seen the history of that soldier in an Indonesian military magazine you mentioned before, the one I read is 'Angkasa' collection edition (if I'm not mistaken).
Unfortunately, it only tells the short history in one column.
It's rather difficult to obtain the full details about this story. Perhaps because the genuine evidence is not well provided.
Anyway, thanks for your info, ninoo.
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Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Volksdeutsche from Sumatra does not mean that they were of Eurasian descent. Most Germans/partly jews, were transported to Britisch India as prisinors.Edpin wrote:Hi all,
I have an issue regarding two Waffen-SS soldiers that came from Indonesia.
Robin Lumsden in his book 'A Collectors Guide To: The Waffen-SS' states that there were two Volksdeutsche from Sumatra.
Sumatra is apparently an island in western part of Indonesia.
At that time, Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch (before Japan came and also occupied it) and the country was known as Dutch East Indies.
One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier.
Moreover, I am interested with the details about this story if anyone could help me.
Any information and evidence would be very appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Edpin
The person on the photo is most likely a Dutch-Indo, Dutch Indo's were very national socialistic. 70% of these Dutch Indo's were member of the Dutch National socialistic movement, the NSB. Native Indonesian were not full citizens of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Dutch Indo's were. Many of them joined the SS and fought in Russia. A lot of them came directly from the Dutch military academy, the KMA in Breda. Native Indonesians were interned by the Germans in prisons and camps, parts also served with the Dutch resistance.
Mark Bando is the one who came up with the idea that this person could be Indonesian in one of his books, a terrible mistake because he was not informed of the Dutch-Indo culture.
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Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
Meinout Rost van Tonningen was not allowed to the SS because he could not show his family records due the war circumstances. The archives in Japanese occupied East Indies were not available at that time.ninoo wrote:Another soldier from Sumatra is Fritz Schneewind. Born in Padang town in Sumatra, he served as an U-Boat commander and sunk with his ship in Java Sea, Indonesia/East Indies!
There was issues that Meinout Rost van Tonningen (born in Soerabaja, Java), the NSB leader, have Indonesian blood. Thus, Himmler personally rejected his intention to join with SS during early phase of war, but finally give him permission to join SS 'Landstorm Nederland' in final years of war, after the SS finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race.
It's not that the SS staff "finally thrown-out theirs illusion about the Aryan pure master-race" it was the fact that Nazi-Germany was losing a war and they needed everyone they could get.
Re: Waffen-SS Soldiers from Indonesia
I've just come across that soldier's identity, while searching for something else: Johan Zondag from Semarang (Indonesia), killed on the Volkhov Front in June 1942. So he never served in the Dutch SS division, but in the legion.Edpin wrote: ↑13 Jun 2012, 17:59[...] One of them that is known (or at least believed) until this time, is the soldier on the attached picture.
He served in the 23rd Waffen-SS Panzergrenadier Division Freiwilligen Legion Nederland.
But the question is, whether or not it is possible that this soldier was one of the two Volksdeutsche described earlier. [...]
Source: De zwarte soldaat, 10.12.1942, p. 12