The "Iron Cage"

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The_Enigma
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The "Iron Cage"

#1

Post by The_Enigma » 10 Sep 2012, 22:04

Hi all,

I am a little unsure where to ask this so i guess it will have to go here until moved (if it needs to be). I have just stumbled across several references to this book while googling. The author, Nigel Cawthorne, makes the claim that several thousand American and British prisoners of wars were basically abducted by the Soviets at the end of the war and interned in the GULags, never to be returned.

Doing further searches it seems all reference to this story all come back to Cawthorne and his work “Iron Cages”. The posts across the internet, that I have seen, just seem to be people repeating the story without question or presenting any other evidence. I note that on Cawthorne’s wiki entry it states “Many of Nigel Cawthorne's books are compilations of popular history, without footnotes, references or bibliographies”. In addition, a contemporary review from 1994 after the release of the book states “the author offers precious little evidence to support the contention” (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boo ... 05056.html)

I have never heard of this story before. In addition I am currently reading “Europe at War”, and considering Norman Davies mission to highlight (or ram down your throat :lol: ) the numerous crimes of the regime committed he has yet to bring this up and it would seem a worthwhile addition if it were true. In all the story sounds like a complete load of bollocks to me - another "Other Losses".

Has anyone ever corroborated these claims, or established that they are complete tosh?

Trackhead M2
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#2

Post by Trackhead M2 » 10 Sep 2012, 23:53

The_Enigma wrote:Hi all,

I am a little unsure where to ask this so i guess it will have to go here until moved (if it needs to be). I have just stumbled across several references to this book while googling. The author, Nigel Cawthorne, makes the claim that several thousand American and British prisoners of wars were basically abducted by the Soviets at the end of the war and interned in the GULags, never to be returned.

Doing further searches it seems all reference to this story all come back to Cawthorne and his work “Iron Cages”. The posts across the internet, that I have seen, just seem to be people repeating the story without question or presenting any other evidence. I note that on Cawthorne’s wiki entry it states “Many of Nigel Cawthorne's books are compilations of popular history, without footnotes, references or bibliographies”. In addition, a contemporary review from 1994 after the release of the book states “the author offers precious little evidence to support the contention” (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boo ... 05056.html)

I have never heard of this story before. In addition I am currently reading “Europe at War”, and considering Norman Davies mission to highlight (or ram down your throat :lol: ) the numerous crimes of the regime committed he has yet to bring this up and it would seem a worthwhile addition if it were true. In all the story sounds like a complete load of bollocks to me - another "Other Losses".

Has anyone ever corroborated these claims, or established that they are complete tosh?
Dear Big E,
So much has been brought to light since 1989 it seems highly unlikely that a secret like this would still be kept due to the lack of reach the Russian government has these days. I recall a lot of the alleged "red threat"stories of the fifties and sixties have been proven true by the release of records. The story of Operation Halyard and the betrayal of Mikhailovich is now known and the coverup is attributed to Kim Philby and his cohorts.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2


armorrich
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#3

Post by armorrich » 11 Sep 2012, 01:18

In refrence to US/Brit POW's being abducted by the Russians......my sister -in-laws dad was in the 327 GIR, 101st Airborne Div., and was captured just outside Bastogne. I don't know what Stalag he was taken to but i clearly remember him telling me how it was "liberated" by the Russians. He and the rest of the POW's there were formed up and marched toward the east....he was very afraid that he'd never see home again because it was clear the destination was Russia. He said that somehow General Ike got wind of what was going on and after a few days march, ordered the 6th Armored Div., he was clear about that, to send a column of 2 1/2 ton trucks to intercept the march and bring them back into US lines. To his dying day he felt that Ike had a soft spot for the 101st since D-Day. In his eyes, Ike could do no wrong after that. He felt Ike had saved his life. Take it for what you will......cheers...rich

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phylo_roadking
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#4

Post by phylo_roadking » 11 Sep 2012, 02:45

It's not quite WWII...but I recall reading in the first chapter of a book on the Berlin Airlift a few years ago that the Soviets kidnapped...or attempted to kidnap...a few Allied servicemen across into the Soviet Zone once the Western Allies had arrived in the city, including a WRAF.
Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs....
Lord, please keep Kevin Bacon alive...

Trackhead M2
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#5

Post by Trackhead M2 » 11 Sep 2012, 20:13

phylo_roadking wrote:It's not quite WWII...but I recall reading in the first chapter of a book on the Berlin Airlift a few years ago that the Soviets kidnapped...or attempted to kidnap...a few Allied servicemen across into the Soviet Zone once the Western Allies had arrived in the city, including a WRAF.
Dear Phylo,
Try watching "Night People" with Gregory Peck, it shows some of what you are talking about. As to the WRAF, the old Red Army guys must have thought it was prior to VE Day or they needed her uniform for espionage.
Strike Swiftly,
TH-M2

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henryk
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#6

Post by henryk » 11 Sep 2012, 21:22

===US-Russian Joint Commission on POW/MIAs
U.S. Department of State Dispatch, ISSN 1051-7693, 06/1992, Volume 3, Issue 24, p. 475
.... Documents attest to the fact that during and after WWII there were more than 23,000 US citizens who were either POWs or interned prisoners on the territory of the USSR
===Secret Siberian saga: First Cold War pows by Anonymous
VFW, Veterans of Foreign Wars Magazine, ISSN 0161-8598, 04/1998, Volume 85, Issue 8, p. 29
The saga of US POWs held in Siberia by Soviet forces is detailed. A total of 291 US airmen spent WWII in a Soviet prison camp at the village of Vrevskaya near...
===Evidence points to U.S. GIs as Soviet POWs by Tim Dyhouse
VFW, Veterans of Foreign Wars Magazine, ISSN 0161-8598, 04/2000, Volume 87, Issue 8, p. 10
The memoir of a former USSR gulag prisoner claims that US servicemen were POWs in the 1950s and is noteworthy because it provides the names of GIs, three of which match with US military records..
====Soldiers of misfortune: Washington's secret betrayal of American POWs in the Soviet Union by Sanders, James D; Sauter, Mark A; Kirkwood, R. Cort Content
"Soldiers of Misfortune is the outrageous and compelling story of thousands of American POWs held captive by the Soviet Union and of the U.S. government officials who lied about their fate for half-a-century, keeping a lid on the most disgraceful cover-up in American history. Soldiers of Misfortune reveals for the first time that top U.S. officials, from Roosevelt to Bush, made the determination to write off America's missing sons, secretly held hostage in the Soviet Union." "In an explosive revelation, Colonel Philip Corso, an intelligence aide to President Dwight Eisenhower, revealed exclusively to the authors that the president personally made the decision to abandon hundreds, perhaps thousands, of U.S. POWs from the Korean War." "More than six years ago, Jim Sanders began his lonely quest for the truth about American POWs "liberated" by Soviet troops in Germany and Eastern Europe near the end of World War II. Then Mark Sauter and R. Cort Kirkwood joined in the search - sifting through thousands of formerly classified documents, interviewing military brass and escapees from Russia, and evaluating chilling eyewitness accounts." "As the authors neared the truth, top level Pentagon officials attempted to "neutralize" and silence them in a desperate attempt to bury the truth from the public. At the same time a newspaper office and Sanders's car were surreptitiously entered, his apartment ransacked and crucial documents stolen." "A secret covenant of the 1945 Yalta agreement provided that the U.S. and Britain would return Soviet citizens residing in the West. In exchange, Stalin promised to return Western soldiers who had been liberated by the Red Army. After the war, American and British authorities breached that agreement by secretly permitting Soviets to remain in the West. Stalin learned about the deception and retaliated by holding 23,500 American and 30,000 British and Commonwealth soldiers captive in the vast Soviet gulag system." "The authors trace the fate of American POWs from the Korean, Vietnam and Cold wars. In the early years of the Cold War, American soldiers and civilians were kidnapped off the streets of Europe and taken to the Soviet Union where they were interrogated and brainwashed, later disappearing into the gulag. Hundreds of Korean War POWs were transferred to China and the Soviet Union during that war. Despite countless denials by American officials, the authors provide new evidence that Vietnam War MIAs were smuggled out of the Asian jungles and taken to live out their lives in Siberian exile." "Soldiers of Misfortune turns history upside down - it documents that every president since World War II has lied to the American people about the fate of its fighting men. This book leaves only one unanswered question: How many Americans are still alive in Russia, China and North Korea?"--BOOK JACKET.
Publisher National Press Books Date1992 ISBN9780915765836, 0915765837

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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#7

Post by Art » 21 Sep 2012, 19:09

henryk wrote:US-Russian Joint Commission on POW/MIAs
U.S. Department of State Dispatch, ISSN 1051-7693, 06/1992, Volume 3, Issue 24, p. 475
.... Documents attest to the fact that during and after WWII there were more than 23,000 US citizens who were either POWs or interned prisoners on the territory of the USSR
What a wonderful example of a creative editing! In reality the joint commission has arrived to the following:
In June 1992, the Russian side of the Joint Russian-American Commission for determining the fates of POWs/MIAs during and after the Second World War, acknowledged a statement.

The statement noted, in particular, that as a result of work done to determine the fate of the US citizens missing in action on the territory of the USSR during and after the Second World War, they managed to establish that, from 1941 to the present, more than 23,000 US citizens were on the territory of the USSR as internees, POWs and convicts. Practically all of them, excluding the deceased, were returned home by June 1953.

Almost all of these 23 000 were in reality American POWs from German camps liberated by the Soviet Army, and practically all of them were repatriated by the end of 1945 (according to the report of the Soviet repatriation agency of 1.12.1952 22 416 former American POWs and 33 internees were repatriated during 1945 and several dozens in the following years). The text from the "Soldiers of misfortune" is mostly a fantasy of some GOP idiots.
The saga of US POWs held in Siberia by Soviet forces is detailed. A total of 291 US airmen spent WWII in a Soviet prison camp at the village of Vrevskaya near..
That sounds more trustworthy, a certain number of American airmen operating against Japan were interned after their planes landed on the Soviet Far East territory. Note that the USSR kept neutrality in the Japanese war before August 1945, hence an internment of belligerent troops.

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henryk
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#8

Post by henryk » 21 Sep 2012, 21:13

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&type=s ... te]Letters to the Editor
From: The Journal of Military History
Volume 67, Number 2, April 2003
pp. 660-667 | 10.1353/jmh.2003.0136

In lieu of an abstract, here is a brief excerpt of the content:
The Journal of Military History 67.2 (2003) 660-667

We are always pleased to have letters to the editor because this shows that people are reading our Journal seriously. However, due to space limitations, we ask that you keep your letters under 500 words.

To the Editor:

I have recently been provided by one of my readers with a copy of your July 2002 issue, featuring an article by Timothy Nenninger entitled, "United States Army Prisoners of War and the Red Army, 1944-45: Myths and Realities."

I am the author of the book, Moscow Bound: Policy, Politics and the POW/MIA Dilemma which Mr. Nenninger attempts to discredit. In addition to disparaging my scholarship, Mr. Nenninger appears to question my motives and to defame my character by labeling me a perpetrator of a "myth."

I was required to fully document my published writing on the subject of American POWs in Soviet control by the Washington Post in 1990 and 1991, The Oregonian, the Disabled American Veterans, the VFW, the American Legion Magazine and other publications, in addition to the U.S. Secret Service and U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations and the Select Committee on POWs and MIAs from 1989 to 1993. Some, but by no means all of the documentary evidence which I supplied to the U.S. Senate was published as Volume II, POW/MIA Policy and Process, Hearings of the Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, United States Senate, U.S. Government Printing Office, 1992, ISBN 0-16-038479-6.

Mr. Nenninger was not truthful in his article about the declassification of U.S. documents concerning American POWs of WWII remaining in Soviet control, and he is directly responsible for denying the declassification of many files containing large numbers of U.S. documents on this subject. Those files were mandated to be declassified years ago by both the Senate and the President. I met with Nenninger in the Archives and he denied my request for specifically identified files of priceless historical documents concerning U.S. POWs of WWII and other wars remaining in Soviet captivity. In this regard he has denied the sacrifice they made for our country and assisted those who committed this war crime.

It would appear that Mr. Nenninger is in fact the perpetrator of a "myth," in claiming that these events never occurred. In 1992 the President of Russia confirmed to a joint session of the U.S. Congress that the Soviets had secretly withheld American POWs of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam. The American POWs withheld by Stalin after WWII were, in fact, part of a chain of such secretly held American prisoners in Russia which began after the 1918-19 American Intervention in Russia, and continued after WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. In quoting me, in your magazine, Mr. Nenninger removed critical words which accurately describe this historical sequence. (See pg. 8 Moscow Bound)

As a partially disabled combat infantry veteran of Vietnam, I take strong exception to having my character and motives assailed publicly for my efforts to uncover the fate of thousands of my fellow American soldiers who remained POW or MIA after four of our nation's major twentieth-century wars. I respectfully request that I be permitted to respond to Mr. Nenninger's accusations with a similar length article, in the interest of historical fairness and literary freedom.

I shall forward this letter by surface mail in addition to e-mail, together with a copy of my book and various letters relating to my work for the U.S. Senate and the American veterans community in this matter.

John M. G. Brown
Petrolia, California [/quote]
Note that Timothy K. Nenninger is Records Administration and Co-Chairman. World War II Working Group - Russia Joint Commission on POW/MIAs.

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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#9

Post by Art » 21 Sep 2012, 23:01

henryk wrote: In 1992 the President of Russia confirmed to a joint session of the U.S. Congress that the Soviets had secretly withheld American POWs of World War II, Korea, and Vietnam.
That is the statement by Yeltsin and Volkogonov to the US Senate's Committee (from the Committee's report available online
http://s45.radikal.ru/i107/1209/22/8debfcb9f685.jpg
http://i061.radikal.ru/1209/88/92f4f7752702.jpg
http://s019.radikal.ru/i616/1209/4d/e8027b3ab987.jpg
As we can see apart from repatriated POWs and interned airmen Yeltsin and Volkogonov admitted that several dozens men were detained in the Eastern Europe and charged with espionage. The report also mentions that according to Dr.Cole's testimony out of 39 men illegally detained according to list provided by Volkgonov none was actually an American POW. Of course neither Yeltsin nor Volkogonov ever supported the statement that dozens of thousands POWs were held captive in the USSR after the WWII. There were apparently some number of POWs transferred to the Soviet Union during the Korean and Vietnam Wars, but that is outside the topic of this forum section, I guess.

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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#10

Post by Art » 21 Sep 2012, 23:22

The report of Paul Cole (who was outsourcing for the US government in 1991-93) on the subject can be found here:
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pu ... R351.2.pdf

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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#11

Post by Art » 22 Sep 2012, 11:20

It is worth to add that many American newspapers have misinterpreted the Yeltsin's letter to the Senate Committee, claiming that there were American WW2 POWs executed, see for example:
http://articles.latimes.com/1992-11-12/ ... viet-union
In reality Yeltsin spoke in more broad terms about American citizens, as can be seen from the text posted above, and as follows from the more detailed testimony given by Volkogonov, the statement pertained to the period from 1930s and on. Volkogonov confirmed that 119 of liberated American POWs of Russian/Soviet origin were detained ans investigated for collaboration, most were repatriated by demands of US government, but some ended up staying in camps for a long period of time. That was the only statement concerning withholding American WW2 POWs.

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henryk
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Re: The "Iron Cage"

#12

Post by henryk » 24 Sep 2012, 22:29

Art, thank you for the information and the references. Yeltsin did so much to restore the reputation of Russians.

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