Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Bundesarchiv lists the below as Waffen-SS units during the Warsaw uprising. Does anyone have any additional information on them such as the units or locations?
Thanks.
/Marcus
Thanks.
/Marcus
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
The first two pictures are not of Waffen SS troops, instead they appear to be Army Panzer Grenadiers, probably from 19th Panzer Division. In the third picture, the troops are Waffen SS, as evidenced by the SS collar tabs and the SS camouflage smock, and are probably from 5th SS Panzer Divisioin.
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
In early August 1944, newly established IV. SS-Panzer-Korps, composed of the SS-Panzer-Divisions "Wiking" and "Totenkopf", and the Army´s 19. Panzer-Division, was transferred to the Warsaw area where it launched a counterattack which threw the Russians out of the city and back across the Vistula........The SS-Panzer-Korps was able to help crush the Warsaw uprising.
Roger James Bender: Uniforms, organization and history of the Waffen-SS.
Other well known SS unit were Dirlewanger brigade and RONA, but any of them wore SS runes, neither "Totenkopf" division. So could be "Wiking" or the staff from the IV. SS-Panzer-Korps.
with best regards
Arto
Roger James Bender: Uniforms, organization and history of the Waffen-SS.
Other well known SS unit were Dirlewanger brigade and RONA, but any of them wore SS runes, neither "Totenkopf" division. So could be "Wiking" or the staff from the IV. SS-Panzer-Korps.
with best regards
Arto
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Most likely first and second pictures were taken east of Warsaw during Radzymin/Okuniew battle with Russians, not Warsaw uprising. They may well be units of 19 Panzer Div. Timeline is the same – early August 1944. Some identification attempts of German photos from Warsaw uprising are here:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Niemi ... szawskiego
Several pictures by Leher allegedly from Warsaw uprising are actually from Grodno, Lituania...
Roger James Bender is not entirely correct. Russians never crossed Vistula river in Warsaw in August 1944, so this statement ‘counterattack which threw the Russians out of the city and back across the Vistula’ is a fiction. He probably refers to Radzymin/Okuniew battle. Also, generally SS-Panzer-Korps was not used to crush the Warsaw uprising.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Niemi ... szawskiego
Several pictures by Leher allegedly from Warsaw uprising are actually from Grodno, Lituania...
Roger James Bender is not entirely correct. Russians never crossed Vistula river in Warsaw in August 1944, so this statement ‘counterattack which threw the Russians out of the city and back across the Vistula’ is a fiction. He probably refers to Radzymin/Okuniew battle. Also, generally SS-Panzer-Korps was not used to crush the Warsaw uprising.
- Piotr Mikołajski
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Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Polish sites lists both photos as "outskirts of Warsaw". I guess no better description will be available due to lack of unique buildings.Marcus Wendel wrote:Does anyone have any additional information on them such as the units or locations?
As for SS units - it seems there were several small SS units in the city at that time. Looking at uniforms it could be one of frontline ones. In most cases this photo is captioned as "Dirlewanger", but collar patches of Dirlewanger are different and clearly visible on photo below.
Personally I don't like Wikipedia but this article (in Polish) is quite well prepared: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Si%C5%82y_ ... arszawskim Another one, listing German units with original names, is this one: http://www.powstanie44.spytours.pl - there are few possible "hits".
Best regards,
Piotr Mikołajski
Piotr Mikołajski
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Thanks for the feedback so far.
/Marcus
/Marcus
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
I did some digging and looks like Leher(PK) was assigned to 19. Panzer-Division at that time.
According to Glanz and also Polish researcher Wojciech Kempa (based on primary German sources):
[...]On 15 July, due to the critical situation in the East, an order was issued to move the battlegroup of 19. PzD to the Arys (Orzysz – East Prussia) training ground.[...]The first group of units - KGr Beier - was sent from Arys to Grodno on the night of 19/20 July. On 22 July it recaptured Grodno and on the next day was shifted to Bialystok.
The next portion of the units - KGr Stollbrock - was rushed from Arys to the front on 21 July and almost immediately went into action between Grodno and Bialystok.[...]
When Russian 2nd Panzer Army broke between HG Division at Minsk Mazowiecki and 3. SS-Totenkopf in Kaluszyn - Sielce, KGr Beier and KGr Stollbrock were shifted by rail from Bialystok to Rembertow (east of Warsaw) on 26/27 July and 28 July respectively to close the gap. They were followed by a third battlegroup - I./PzGR 73 and III.(s)/PzArtR - that was shipped from Arys by Bialystok on 28/29 July.
From Rembertow units of 19.PzD (KGr Kossmann) were attacking towards Okuniew in order to cut off Russian 3rd Panzer Korps.
When Russians cut Bialystok – Warsaw rail, remaining units of 19. PzD unit were offloaded in Lochow and moved by road to Radzymin via Wyszkow to stop Russian there.
Although it is not confirmed by any official records, most probably Leher(PK) was shifted from Grodno/Bialystok by trains together with KGr Beier and arrived safely in Rembertow before Russian cut off the rail link. So most likely his pictures:
Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0407-06 to -27 and Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0408-05A to 24A were taken somewhere between Rembertow and Okuniew between 27July and 3 August.
Pictures Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0409-027A to -030A were taken in Grodno (Lithuania) on 21/22 July.
All above pictures are labelled Warschauer Aufstand, which is totally incorrect as it contradicts German primary sources!!!
According to Glanz and also Polish researcher Wojciech Kempa (based on primary German sources):
[...]On 15 July, due to the critical situation in the East, an order was issued to move the battlegroup of 19. PzD to the Arys (Orzysz – East Prussia) training ground.[...]The first group of units - KGr Beier - was sent from Arys to Grodno on the night of 19/20 July. On 22 July it recaptured Grodno and on the next day was shifted to Bialystok.
The next portion of the units - KGr Stollbrock - was rushed from Arys to the front on 21 July and almost immediately went into action between Grodno and Bialystok.[...]
When Russian 2nd Panzer Army broke between HG Division at Minsk Mazowiecki and 3. SS-Totenkopf in Kaluszyn - Sielce, KGr Beier and KGr Stollbrock were shifted by rail from Bialystok to Rembertow (east of Warsaw) on 26/27 July and 28 July respectively to close the gap. They were followed by a third battlegroup - I./PzGR 73 and III.(s)/PzArtR - that was shipped from Arys by Bialystok on 28/29 July.
From Rembertow units of 19.PzD (KGr Kossmann) were attacking towards Okuniew in order to cut off Russian 3rd Panzer Korps.
When Russians cut Bialystok – Warsaw rail, remaining units of 19. PzD unit were offloaded in Lochow and moved by road to Radzymin via Wyszkow to stop Russian there.
Although it is not confirmed by any official records, most probably Leher(PK) was shifted from Grodno/Bialystok by trains together with KGr Beier and arrived safely in Rembertow before Russian cut off the rail link. So most likely his pictures:
Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0407-06 to -27 and Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0408-05A to 24A were taken somewhere between Rembertow and Okuniew between 27July and 3 August.
Pictures Bundesarchiv Build 101I-695-0409-027A to -030A were taken in Grodno (Lithuania) on 21/22 July.
All above pictures are labelled Warschauer Aufstand, which is totally incorrect as it contradicts German primary sources!!!
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Thanks again.
/Marcus
/Marcus
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
In the capital of Poland (and then the capital of Distrikt Warschau) were involved during Warsaw Uprising:
– SS-Sonderregiment Dirlewanger (commander: SS-Sturmbannführer Kurt Weiss, since 8 VIII - SS-Standartenführer Oskar Dirlewanger)
– SS-Panzer Grenadier Ausbildungs und Ersatz Bataillon 3, comm: SS-Obersturmbannführer Walter Bellwidt to 27/28 VII, replaced by SS-Obersturmführer Martin Patz
– improvised armored company of 3. SS-Panzer-Division „Totenkopf”
– SS-Kavallerie-Ausbildung-und-Ersatz-Abteilung Warschau, comm: SS-Hauptsturmführer Dickmann or SS-Obersturmbannführer Wilhelm Plänk
– subunit Waffen-SS przy Angriffsgruppe Nord (Reck):
training company of SS grenadiers from the XVI war cadet course of SS-Junkerschule Braunschweig in Posen-Treskau (Poznań-Owińska)
1st platoon of the heavy company "Posen", comm: SS-Obersturmführer Röntgen (in second version mentions SS-Hauptsturmführer Lahua)
– Sturmregiment of Waffen-Sturm-Brigade der SS RONA/29. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „RONA“ (russische Nr. 1), comm: Waffen-Sturmbannführer der SS Ivan Frolov
- subunits of laison and Flak battery 5. SS-Panzer-Division „Wiking”
Moreover, the German national-socialist structures of SS terror (not Waffen-SS):
– KdS Warschau, comm: SS-Standartenführer Ludwig Hahn
– Einsatzkommando der Sicherheitspolizei bei der KG Reinefarth (earlier Sonderkommando BdS Krakau), comm: SS-Hauptsturmführer Adolf Feucht and later SS-Hauptsturmführer u. Kriminalrat Alfred Spilker)
– Sonderkommando 7a, comm: SS-Sturmbannführer Gerhard Bast.
– SS-Sonderregiment Dirlewanger (commander: SS-Sturmbannführer Kurt Weiss, since 8 VIII - SS-Standartenführer Oskar Dirlewanger)
– SS-Panzer Grenadier Ausbildungs und Ersatz Bataillon 3, comm: SS-Obersturmbannführer Walter Bellwidt to 27/28 VII, replaced by SS-Obersturmführer Martin Patz
– improvised armored company of 3. SS-Panzer-Division „Totenkopf”
– SS-Kavallerie-Ausbildung-und-Ersatz-Abteilung Warschau, comm: SS-Hauptsturmführer Dickmann or SS-Obersturmbannführer Wilhelm Plänk
– subunit Waffen-SS przy Angriffsgruppe Nord (Reck):
training company of SS grenadiers from the XVI war cadet course of SS-Junkerschule Braunschweig in Posen-Treskau (Poznań-Owińska)
1st platoon of the heavy company "Posen", comm: SS-Obersturmführer Röntgen (in second version mentions SS-Hauptsturmführer Lahua)
– Sturmregiment of Waffen-Sturm-Brigade der SS RONA/29. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „RONA“ (russische Nr. 1), comm: Waffen-Sturmbannführer der SS Ivan Frolov
- subunits of laison and Flak battery 5. SS-Panzer-Division „Wiking”
Moreover, the German national-socialist structures of SS terror (not Waffen-SS):
– KdS Warschau, comm: SS-Standartenführer Ludwig Hahn
– Einsatzkommando der Sicherheitspolizei bei der KG Reinefarth (earlier Sonderkommando BdS Krakau), comm: SS-Hauptsturmführer Adolf Feucht and later SS-Hauptsturmführer u. Kriminalrat Alfred Spilker)
– Sonderkommando 7a, comm: SS-Sturmbannführer Gerhard Bast.
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Hi Orlov
What is your source please for the information on the Einsatzkommando der Sicherheitspolizei der KG Reinefarth and the Sonderkommando 7a?
Thanks
Wolfguy
What is your source please for the information on the Einsatzkommando der Sicherheitspolizei der KG Reinefarth and the Sonderkommando 7a?
Thanks
Wolfguy
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
On the basis that these SS-Sipo units suffered casualties in Warsaw, they or some part of them must have been present.
Is there no authoritative listing of German units present. I can list more but dont want to duplicate work previously done by somebody else ?
- Einsatzkdo Walter - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 20 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- Regt Reck - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 7 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- Pol Btl Sarnow - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 25 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- III/SS-Pol Rgt 23 (casualties 4 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- 4/Pol Wach Btl "Warschau" (casualties 1 Aug 1944, Warschau)
Is there no authoritative listing of German units present. I can list more but dont want to duplicate work previously done by somebody else ?
- Einsatzkdo Walter - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 20 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- Regt Reck - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 7 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- Pol Btl Sarnow - Kampfgr Reinefarth (casualties 25 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- III/SS-Pol Rgt 23 (casualties 4 Aug 1944, Warschau)
- 4/Pol Wach Btl "Warschau" (casualties 1 Aug 1944, Warschau)
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Sorry, I forgot to write - forgotten and unvisited of course Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg.
None of the troops you mentioned belonged to the Waffen-SS
- Einsatzkdo Walter - was Gendarmerie
- Regt Reck - Wehrmacht alarm unit from Posen [Poznan]
- Pol Btl Peterburs (later Sarnow) - Warthegau Orpo
- III/SS-Pol Rgt 23 - Orpo
- 4/Pol Wach Btl "Warschau" - Schupo
Regards Wolfguy & Peter
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Hi Orlov
Could you give me some more indication about the files of Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg where you took infos on the SS units in Warsaw, in particular the SS Aus. u Erst. Bataillon? Indeed I know the SS Ausbildung und Ersatz bataillon 3 took part on the crushing of the Jewish ghetto uprising in 1943, but never found anything about it's role on the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.
It would be very helpful to me to look at that documentation. What's the archival signature of Ludwigsburg concerning the war activities of this SS formation?
Many thanks
Could you give me some more indication about the files of Bundesarchiv Ludwigsburg where you took infos on the SS units in Warsaw, in particular the SS Aus. u Erst. Bataillon? Indeed I know the SS Ausbildung und Ersatz bataillon 3 took part on the crushing of the Jewish ghetto uprising in 1943, but never found anything about it's role on the Warsaw Uprising of 1944.
It would be very helpful to me to look at that documentation. What's the archival signature of Ludwigsburg concerning the war activities of this SS formation?
Many thanks
Re: Which Waffen-SS unit in Warsaw?
Unfortunately, there's not much. Only in Bundesarchiv Ludwigburg is there an investigation against SS-Ostuf. Patz (comm. of part SS-Pz.Gren.Ausb.u.Ers. Btl. 3 - aka Kampfgruppe Patz). There were described the massacre in the Mokotow prison in early August. The rest of the crimes were of no interest to German prosecutors. Anyway, Patz is one of the three convicted of crimes committed during the Warsaw Uprising. As for the archival reference, I'll be able to help you in a few days when I return to my notes.
PS: Next possible source - Vopersal, but i didn't see it.
PS: Next possible source - Vopersal, but i didn't see it.